Hoosier51 Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 1 minute ago, HoosierDom said: I don't know the language of their rule, but rules have context. The rule, regardless of the exact language, would treat retaliation differently than an instigator. It would treat violence in an athletic setting differently than violence in an academic one. There is no chance the school has a rule that is so broad and absolute that it would require Howard to be fired. They might want to make a PR move and fire him - they might be even be happy to have an out to ditch him (though, I doubt they are there), but there is no chance the rule binds them to action. See now this is the way to explain and clear it up without being a tool, thank you. 👍 I don't know much about contracts, was just passing along something I read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 This forum has gotten so chippy! And i include myself in that. I have snapped back at people more recently but man, the divide in the fandom on here is worst than that at the end of the Miller tenure. Maybe we're getting older and grumpier, or mercury is in retrograde or covid-19 changed our brain chemistry but whew its CHIPPY these days over almost every topic. Or maybe i think it is but its really not. I can't really tell what real and not real anymore 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier82 Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) 18 hours ago, Hoosier51 said: Hey smartass all I said was that UM has a rule, any workplace violence is immediate dismissal. Howard is one of their employees so it is easy to assume that he is covered in that. You don’t know what you’re talking about so chill on the name calling. You have an opinion. Cool. Others disagree…was inevitable…take your L and move on to the next topic. Edited February 21, 2022 by Hoosier82 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy River Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 Watching all of those replays last night, and focusing on Brad Davison reminded me of a Nolan Ryan quote. Ryan was doing a season journal for a paper in Texas during his last season. After or as he whopped on Robin Ventura, Jack McDowell said some unflattering things. So in his next journal Ryan said "Down here in Texas, real men get into the fight, they don't stand on the outside and yell." 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 Extended video and analysis from Matt Norlander. Includes Gards post game comments. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 kind of hard to understand the argument about this situation. not that i am a Wisconsin fan, but what Gard did would have not only not started a fight, it would not even have gotten any attention, and definitely would not warrant disciplinary action. was he wrong? sure. he had no business stopping him. i don't like Howard at all, but he was doing the right thing by trying to avoid confrontation. however, in life, society, whatever, just because someone calls you a name or says something you don't like, if you assault them, you could end up with charges. then put it in a sporting event with 18 year olds and it's worse. let's also not forget that he didn't hit Gard on the spot when he "felt threatened." he didn't even hit Gard. he hit the assistant after he had fought through a barricade of players. isn't all really as simple as that? 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 10 hours ago, Purdue7 said: 1. Coach your team…don’t worry about timeouts. It’s D1 basketball…no crying allowed 2. Gard should let Howard blow through the line. They can talk later if he really feels the need to 3. Howard is the leader of his team and represents a Big Ten university…act like it ! 4. Davison elbow is premeditated. He drills him with the pointy tip in the ribs I will never give Draymond, Grayson, CP3 or Davison the benefit of the doubt….multiple offenders! so strange to agree with someone with Purdue in their name, but no one is mentioning #1. that is my thought as well. i definitely agree with #2 as well. it just doesn't warrant hitting an assistant coach after busting through a barricade of players. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euroclydon Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 A few thought on the UM v Wis fight. 1. It will be interesting to see what punishment the B1G sends down but let's see if UM does anything beyond what the conference hands down. This is the second year in a row Howard has blown up at the opposing coach after a game only this time he tossed in a head smack to an assistant. 2. Wis talks a lot and they have the one guy who creates more issues per game than anyone in the conference. They may get a pass here because of Howard but my guess is every team in the league has had enough of Wis, who gets away with more than any team in the conference. 3. My expectation is the B1G refs will now put the conference on lock down. Every team will have to adjust because it is about to get ugly with fouls. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 Fwiw, the crew on the CBS morning show agreed that Gard initiated the ruckus. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) When did the coaches and players become so sensitive when it comes to end of game situations. That IU game from 86 I watched where IU was up 18 with 40 seconds to go. In that last 40 seconds each team shot the ball 2 times. They played until the buzzer went off and nobody cared that MSU shot the ball at the buzzer. Today we get upset if a team calls a timeout with 15 seconds to go. If Howard thought UW should stop playing then he shouldn't have been pressing when UW had their walk one in the game. Edited February 21, 2022 by IU Scott 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchenry34 Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 I will put an Asterix on my response here, as I really don't like Wisconsin and Greg Gard strikes me as an extremely arrogant person (acting like crowding the paint against teams with good post players and below average shooting is some kind of genius move)...I imagine that a lot of you will find this post annoying, so be it. I believe that this incident will eventually be seen through the lens of racism, and I believe rightly so. My opinion is developed from the fact that Gard's staff has been accused of racism before, Howard grew up in a tough situation in Chicago, and Gard's demeanor had "teaching that boy a lesson" written all over it. From the grab of Howard as he walked past to the way he talked about Howard in the postgame press conference. (I'd be very interested in what Krabbenhoff said...I'm guessing it's not a good look) There is a great deal ingrained in us as human beings when we are young, and for Howard a very strong "fight or flight" response would have been absorbed while growing up. Someone to putting their hands on you and speak to you in a way that demeans your manhood would have been chief among the things that would garner a Fight response... Add in the fact that their team talks as much as or more than most (including Davison turning and screaming F-you at our bench last game...Stewart's response to him last game had almost nothing to do with what happened on that actual play) and is always red-lining it when it comes to the playing hard/playing dirty divide, and I am basically amazed that something like this didn't happen sooner... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 I heard a guy last night say that Howard was just teaching hsi guys to play til the end to not give and finish the game hard. He was coaching right til the end. I have no problem with that at all and applaud coaching hard and playing hard right to the very end. With that being said then if Howard can coach his guys til the end why can't Gard coach his. Using a timeout is part of coaching. Maybe teaching his guys to play til the end. We all know this is BS. Howard was pissed they were losing and how miserable this season has been for them. He decided to press the walk ons and Gard called timeout. Not a big deal just a little pissing match among guys that will coach against each other. If you are going to press in that situation then don't cry about it after the game and pout about it. If he was really that ticked about it he could have bypassed the handshake completely. Like I said before anyone that knows anything at all about coaching knew that words wold be exchanged during the handshakes plain and simple. I am not going to comment on who started anything. YOU are a grown man in charge of a team, 50 years old and if you cannot handle that kind of issue how in the hell are you expecting you 18 to 23 year old guys to handle their real life situations. Terrible example set by Howard and what followed up was a direct reflection of the actions of their coach. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said: kind of hard to understand the argument about this situation. not that i am a Wisconsin fan, but what Gard did would have not only not started a fight, it would not even have gotten any attention, and definitely would not warrant disciplinary action. was he wrong? sure. he had no business stopping him. i don't like Howard at all, but he was doing the right thing by trying to avoid confrontation. however, in life, society, whatever, just because someone calls you a name or says something you don't like, if you assault them, you could end up with charges. then put it in a sporting event with 18 year olds and it's worse. let's also not forget that he didn't hit Gard on the spot when he "felt threatened." he didn't even hit Gard. he hit the assistant after he had fought through a barricade of players. isn't all really as simple as that? Holy cow. I was super busy all weekend and was pretty much tuned out from all current events. You do make a really good point. I say this often: reactions shape major historically events, let alone historically insignificant sporting events like this. Power is in how one reacts to an action. Reactions get us into trouble. That said, and not excusing “the slap heard around the Midwest”, why was the assistant running into the situation and what was he saying? What was the excuse for this reaction? I don't like Wisconsin. They are the trolls of B1G basketball. They poke and poke and poke and take advantage of the opponents reactions. I’m not surprised when I heard that a B1G scuffle took place and it involved the Badgers. Wasn’t it just last week when Johnny Davis, AFTER THE GAME, was prancing on our floor mouthing off to fans. They revel in playing dirty and they love to put salt in the wound. AND they love to throw their hands up in the air and cry when the line gets crossed. I don't think our fan base is alone in how they feel about Wisconsin. I think Howard should get suspended until the end of the season. That reaction was inexcusable. I think firing him would be way too drastic. Big picture, conference play this season has been a powder keg ready to explode. Maybe it’s time for some self reflection by the B1G and how they officiate these games. Not only do the officials need to get on board with a cleaner product on the floor, but head coaches who take advantage of the needlessly aggressive play (cough, cough, Izzo and Gard) need to get on board as well. The coaches are just as ‘at fault’ for putting the officials in these situations. I honestly think some coaches heed the philosophy that ‘the officials can’t call everything so go see what you can get away with.’ This crap is not helping the league get recruits and it is not helping the league get wins in the tournament. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 9 minutes ago, mchenry34 said: I will put an Asterix on my response here, as I really don't like Wisconsin and Greg Gard strikes me as an extremely arrogant person (acting like crowding the paint against teams with good post players and below average shooting is some kind of genius move)...I imagine that a lot of you will find this post annoying, so be it. I believe that this incident will eventually be seen through the lens of racism, and I believe rightly so. My opinion is developed from the fact that Gard's staff has been accused of racism before, Howard grew up in a tough situation in Chicago, and Gard's demeanor had "teaching that boy a lesson" written all over it. From the grab of Howard as he walked past to the way he talked about Howard in the postgame press conference. (I'd be very interested in what Krabbenhoff said...I'm guessing it's not a good look) There is a great deal ingrained in us as human beings when we are young, and for Howard a very strong "fight or flight" response would have been absorbed while growing up. Someone to putting their hands on you and speak to you in a way that demeans your manhood would have been chief among the things that would garner a Fight response... Add in the fact that their team talks as much as or more than most (including Davison turning and screaming F-you at our bench last game...Stewart's response to him last game had almost nothing to do with what happened on that actual play) and is always red-lining it when it comes to the playing hard/playing dirty divide, and I am basically amazed that something like this didn't happen sooner... oh wow 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy1987 Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, rico said: Fwiw, the crew on the CBS morning show agreed that Gard initiated the ruckus. I miss the days when the msm reported events and didn't give us their opinions of what happened. Initating could be Howard's walking by the hand shake and mouthing off to Gard. Or maybe the full court press with 15 seconds left when the game is over. Go Hoosiers!!! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 Just as a point of reference Howard called timeout with 14 seconds left down big to Ohio State. To execute that 15 point play they just put in. Pot meet Kettle. Carry on. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUJoe Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Indy1987 said: I miss the days when the msm reported events and didn't give us their opinions of what happened. Initating could be Howard's walking by the hand shake and mouthing off to Gard. Or maybe the full court press with 15 seconds left when the game is over. Go Hoosiers!!! I think the media has always had their opinion or editorial folks. The difference is, it used to be based more on facts and evidence, whereas now it’s based more on number of clicks or viewers it can generate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94hoosier Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 Both coaches were probably out of line howard for pressing with 16 seconds left hard for calling time out If your pressing with 15 seconds left in a game that is over don’t get pissed when the other coach calls a timeout Howard acted like a baby not going thru the handshake line. Gard didn’t need to say anything to him. But once the pointing and shouting start that should be it It is never ok to take swing. NEVER. Howard needs a heavy suspension. Totally his fault for taking swing provoked or not. That is on him no one else 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 18 minutes ago, Indy1987 said: I miss the days when the msm reported events and didn't give us their opinions of what happened. What is everyone doing here? Giving opinions. Just like you just did. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 18 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: Just as a point of reference Howard called timeout with 14 seconds left down big to Ohio State. To execute that 15 point play they just put in. Pot meet Kettle. Carry on. Yup, Howard was wrong. Have you found anyone who disagrees with that yet? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 17 minutes ago, IUJoe said: I think the media has always had their opinion or editorial folks. The difference is, it used to be based more on facts and evidence, whereas now it’s based more on number of clicks or viewers it can generate. Sports shows, even before the days of ESPN, were opinions/editorials. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 1 minute ago, KoB2011 said: Yup, Howard was wrong. Have you found anyone who disagrees with that yet? Steve Fischer disagrees! lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluegrassIU Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, rico said: What is everyone doing here? Giving opinions. Just like you just did. I think @Indy1987 was referring to news outlets giving their opinion instead of reporting the incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 Just now, bluegrassIU said: I think @Indy1987 was referring to news outlets giving their opinion instead of reporting the incident. I understand that. But "we" are no different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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