IUFLA Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 12 hours ago, Indykev said: a couple will die on this hill. I think you're leading Pickett's charge 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 13 hours ago, IU Scott said: I just see that there are very few left that are still backing Woodson anywhere I read I think we can all agree, that one of the biggest issues about this current coaching situation and "The BIG Elephant in the Room", is because Coach Woodson is former IU BB royalty. Obviously, this story couldn't have been written any better for both parties......, if it was flourishing and successful. It's creating doubt, division and total animosity. I want/wanted this to work out in the biggest way, for both parties. Complete and total change is needed to fix this "blown engine". IMO, this is the statement that needs to confidently said and used in this current situation...."It's nothing personal, but at the end of the day this a strictly a business decision!" Also, I feel there are too many people emotionally invested in this to see what needs to happen.... JMO GO IU! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 Idk why people think this is funny but he's announcing his retirement right before the B1G tournament. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parakeet Jones Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said: Idk why people think this is funny but he's announcing his retirement right before the B1G tournament. Just curious, opinion or info? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 Just now, Parakeet Jones said: Just curious, opinion or info? Hunch. Zero info. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 Mike Woodson is NOT going to quit, or retire for that matter. I think some of you overlook that the guy got off of back surgery and 6 weeks later led IU to a Big 10 championship and was the Big 10 PoY. That's not to say, as @Artesian_86 iterated, that because he's "IU Royalty" he shouldn't be canned if the situation warrants (it doesn't), but it does show a toughness that you can't overlook. He's mentally tough and he's a competitor...Quitting isn't in him Why did we fire Archie Miller? Because he could not beat Purdue or get to the NCAA tournament. Yet we get a guy who accomplishes both of those tasks in his first two years, and because we have one down year, we're ready for Dolson to go back to the donors, ask for another $12.5 million dollars to cover what would be essentially admitting he made a mistake. He's not going to do that. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 13 hours ago, Inequality said: Wanna see a good coach? Watch the women’s team spank Iowa right now. Watch the chemistry and continuity from our lady Hoosiers. Smart efficient offense and in your face defense. Pride heart and high energy. Win or lose this game you can be proud that these girls will leave it all on the floor. Tell me one IU men’s player that can shoot the rock like some of these ladies. Not a single one can do what these girls do in game. They are the face of Terry Morens character, attitude, energy and IQ. These ladies aren’t near as athletic as the men but much higher in fundamentals. Terrys ability to translate and connect with her team is obvious. This is why hiring Woodson was a mistake. Teri Moren is 54 and has had 10 years to build a program and establish a culture. She had been successful as a college coach at U of Indpls and IN St. Woodson was always a transitional coach at best, who had to learn on the job as a college coach. "She spent seven seasons at Indianapolis beginning in 2000–01. In her third year there, the 2002–03 season, the Greyhounds finished with an overall record of 29–3, a mark of 18–2 (1st), and reached the NCAA DII Second Round." "During her first year (Indiana State), the 2010–11 season, Moren won more games (16) as a first year coach than any other in Sycamore history. By her third year, the 2012–13 season, Moren’s team finished with an 18–13 record and a berth in the 2013 Women's National Invitation Tournament." "During her third year with the program (Indiana), the 2016–17 season, Moren's Hoosiers finished with an overall record of 23–11, 10–6 in Big Ten play (4th place), and a birth in the Women's National Invitation Tournament, where they advanced to the quarterfinals." That is a program builder. She hasn't had a "down year". I had really hoped that Archie would do that for IU. It didn't work. You have to keep trying until you find the right one. That's why I'm not really sold on Pearl. We need someone younger, but with a successful track record of building programs. Chris Beard (51) is an obvious choice. Dusty May (47) could fit the bill, but the search shouldn't be limited to him because he was an IU manager. Teri Moren played for Purdue. The IU guy shouldn't be a factor. It contributed to a current hiring mistake. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 4 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Mike Woodson is NOT going to quit, or retire for that matter. I think some of you overlook that the guy got off of back surgery and 6 weeks later led IU to a Big 10 championship and was the Big 10 PoY. That's not to say, as @Artesian_86 iterated, that because he's "IU Royalty" he shouldn't be canned if the situation warrants (it doesn't), but it does show a toughness that you can't overlook. He's mentally tough and he's a competitor...Quitting isn't in him Why did we fire Archie Miller? Because he could not beat Purdue or get to the NCAA tournament. Yet we get a guy who accomplishes both of those tasks in his first two years, and because we have one down year, we're ready for Dolson to go back to the donors, ask for another $12.5 million dollars to cover what would be essentially admitting he made a mistake. He's not going to do that. Out of respect for CMW I won't post what I just posted to you. I think there is an exit plan in place. Not sure what that looks like but this is clearly not working and CMW is not a teenager. I'm fine if CMW can stick around. Great man, great mentor. Loved by all. I want that to remain. I see 2 scenarios. CMW stays 1 more year and May comes in as offensive coordinator and declared coach in waiting. Pay May the 3 mil or whatever it takes, drop a few mil on NIL and instantly fix this trash. Or, even less likely, CMW exits gracefully into the office and we let Pearl bring 4 or 5 guys over from Auburn, again have instant reload. The optics are so bad right now. Look at the women's game last night. The fans are not the problem. It's the coaching and the product on the floor. We don't need to be reminded every day of how bad this has turned. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 11 hours ago, Indykev said: After watching the girls play, it got me thinking. maybe we hire Dawn Staley the womens coach of the #1 team in the country to replace Woody. Man that would check a lot of boxes. No. No. No!!! Not a fan even a little bit. She recruited one of my former players. Not a fan at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 3 hours ago, Fkfootball said: I'm definitely not one of these "misogynist" guys that thinks women shouldn't be in men's sports. But that would be a "Canary in the Coal Mine" situation and I'm not sure we are in the position of doing that. There was talk years ago about Pat Summitt coaching men's basketball. would have been a lot better chance that Summitt could have done it successfully. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 5 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: Out of respect for CMW I won't post what I just posted to you. I think there is an exit plan in place. Not sure what that looks like but this is clearly not working and CMW is not a teenager. I'm fine if CMW can stick around. Great man, great mentor. Loved by all. I want that to remain. I see 2 scenarios. CMW stays 1 more year and May comes in as offensive coordinator and declared coach in waiting. Pay May the 3 mil or whatever it takes, drop a few mil on NIL and instantly fix this trash. Or, even less likely, CMW exits gracefully into the office and we let Pearl bring 4 or 5 guys over from Auburn, again have instant reload. The optics are so bad right now. Look at the women's game last night. The fans are not the problem. It's the coaching and the product on the floor. We don't need to be reminded every day of how bad this has turned. Again, though, you ignore the first 2 years and why we terminated Miller... Hey, I'll be the first to say this year has been disappointing and hasn't met what I expected of the team. And that's fine. Any coach can have an off year...Beard, Pearl, Musselman have all had bad seasons...it's the way college basketball has always worked...Kids graduate/leave and new kids take their place... We always look at Wisconsin, Purdue, and Michigan State (while holding our noses) and wonder why we can't be like them...One word...We don't have stability. And firing up the coaching carousel every time we have a bad game isn't a recipe for success.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: Again, though, you ignore the first 2 years and why we terminated Miller... Hey, I'll be the first to say this year has been disappointing and hasn't met what I expected of the team. And that's fine. Any coach can have an off year...Beard, Pearl, Musselman have all had bad seasons...it's the way college basketball has always worked...Kids graduate/leave and new kids take their place... We always look at Wisconsin, Purdue, and Michigan State (while holding our noses) and wonder why we can't be like them...One word...We don't have stability. And firing up the coaching carousel every time we have a bad game isn't a recipe for success.... I'm looking at his body of work. Literally he's doing the same thing he did in New York that got him fired 10 years ago. It's wild. You and I and a dad at the ymca could have gotten the same results the last 2 years. And remember how under utilized Parker Stewart's three point shooting was? Probably chose to forget that. We should have been better that year too. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: I'm looking at his body of work. Literally he's doing the same thing he did in New York that got him fired 10 years ago. It's wild. You and I and a dad at the ymca could have gotten the same results the last 2 years. And remember how under utilized Parker Stewart's three point shooting was? Probably chose to forget that. We should have been better that year too. truly believe Crean or Miller could have gotten those results with those players. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 Just now, NCHoosier32 said: truly believe Crean or Miller could have gotten those results with those players. For sure. And look how the defense has progressively gotten worse after CMW laughed and said what's a pack line? Huh. Trayce set our all time block record and we got worse. Granted a healthy X likely would have kept things similar from year 1 to 2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 Y'all have short memories...Miller had the "generational player" and finished 12-17 and 7-12 in the Big 10 in his last year... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 championships Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 14 hours ago, Inequality said: Wanna see a good coach? Watch the women’s team spank Iowa right now. Watch the chemistry and continuity from our lady Hoosiers. Smart efficient offense and in your face defense. Pride heart and high energy. Win or lose this game you can be proud that these girls will leave it all on the floor. Tell me one IU men’s player that can shoot the rock like some of these ladies. Not a single one can do what these girls do in game. They are the face of Terry Morens character, attitude, energy and IQ. These ladies aren’t near as athletic as the men but much higher in fundamentals. Terrys ability to translate and connect with her team is obvious. Women’s team plays dang good basketball! Now that was fun to watch…take some notes on your way out the door woody. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 33 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said: would have been a lot better chance that Summitt could have done it successfully. Pat had that stare that could melt titanium. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 (edited) 26 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Y'all have short memories...Miller had the "generational player" and finished 12-17 and 7-12 in the Big 10 in his last year... Agreed, and he should have been fired after year 3 for how terrible he was and for losing the locker room that year. Not saying that has anything to do with Coach Woodson and what should or should not happen with him. But there is a difference between a freshman talent and a sr talent, And Coach Woodson had some impact on that. Those last 2 years, he was better on the post that he was the previous 2 years so i give credit where it due. And to me this team hasn't just failed expectations (which may have been to high early on) but they have failed to meet the minimum requirements to be an IU team. I can handle losing. It happens. I can handle missed recruiting due to shooting for the stars and missing. I cannot handle being out hustled by every team that plays us. I cannot handle rolling over on our own court and taking double digit beat downs by every team that has a pulse. I can't handle the lack of Free Throw shooting (come on man, they are free FFS) and i can't handle lack of fundamental BBIQ. I don't really know shit about basketball. But i do know diving for loose balls, blocking out, getting a hand in a shooters face, running and getting back on defense are just fundamental pieces that every player should know and do. The team looks lazy, confused and most recently like they don't really care. I have no idea if Coach Woodson should be fired, asked to retire or come back for another 5 years. I don't know if next year will be the same, better or worst. I do know i am ready for this season to be over with and for some major changes to happen. I do not like IU basketball, the players, coaches or Administration at this moment. Nothing about this team makes me proud to be a Hoosier fan. I know you're ( @IUFLA) a very hardline defender of any of our coaches, and seem to have a special place in your heart specifically for Coach Woodson, so this isn't really posted for you because i know you disagree with my view and thats ok. Keep fighting the good fight, someone has to. Have a great weekend. Enjoy the nice weather all. Edited February 23 by IowaHoosierFan 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 21 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Why did we fire Archie Miller? Because he could not beat Purdue or get to the NCAA tournament. Yet we get a guy who accomplishes both of those tasks in his first two years, and because we have one down year, we're ready for Dolson to go back to the donors, ask for another $12.5 million dollars to cover what would be essentially admitting he made a mistake. He's not going to do that. We fired CAM for a lot more reasons than that. The season he got fired was remarkably similar to this one. His record will probably be worse, because the B1G was a lot better, but the NET and Kenpom rankings were a good 40-50 spots higher than this year's team. His offense sucked and was stagnant. His patented defense also sucked and gave up a high volume of 3's. His players gave up on him. He showed no ability to adapt systematically. His players showed no fire and were sloppy with the ball. He was unable to recruit or develop shooters. You keep on using the 'we made the tournament' card. Yes, we did, but that means nothing if Dolson doesn't see a path forward. CAM also was pretty much a shoe in for the 2019-20 tournament that got cancelled. CAM also dealt with injuries. In the end that meant nothing because the AD didn't see a path forward with him as our coach. I'm not quite sure what to think Woody's future with IU, but if Dolson chooses to fire him, I think it will be warranted.....especially if we are using CAM as the barometer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 1 minute ago, IowaHoosierFan said: Agreed, and he should have been fired after year 3 for how terrible he was and for losing the locker room that year. To be clear, the reason I thought CAM should get another year was the COVID deal, the fact that by all accounts we would have gone to the tournament that year, and that $10 million dollar roadblock... But I didn't know money was so cheap And saying Dolson isn't going to fire Woody right now has more to do with how that'll look to the donors/trustees, than the money part of it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 Just now, IUFLA said: To be clear, the reason I thought CAM should get another year was the COVID deal, the fact that by all accounts we would have gone to the tournament that year, and that $10 million dollar roadblock... But I didn't know money was so cheap And saying Dolson isn't going to fire Woody right now has more to do with how that'll look to the donors/trustees, than the money part of it... Agreed, buyouts do tie the administrations hands. Money isn't infinite, even for a big school like IU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 4 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: We fired CAM for a lot more reasons than that. The season he got fired was remarkably similar to this one. His record will probably be worse, because the B1G was a lot better, but the NET and Kenpom rankings were a good 40-50 spots higher than this year's team. His offense sucked and was stagnant. His patented defense also sucked and gave up a high volume of 3's. His players gave up on him. He showed no ability to adapt systematically. His players showed no fire and were sloppy with the ball. He was unable to recruit or develop shooters. You keep on using the 'we made the tournament' card. Yes, we did, but that means nothing if Dolson doesn't see a path forward. CAM also was pretty much a shoe in for the 2019-20 tournament that got cancelled. CAM also dealt with injuries. In the end that meant nothing because the AD didn't see a path forward with him as our coach. I'm not quite sure what to think Woody's future with IU, but if Dolson chooses to fire him, I think it will be warranted.....especially if we are using CAM as the barometer. OK, then...What IS the criteria? I'm just not buying that metrics, or the "it isn't that we lose, it's HOW we lose." All coaches are going to be judged on their won/loss record...I don't care how ugly it is on either side...A win is a win, and a loss is a loss...No coach is going to get fired for "winning ugly." Do you honestly think we're going to bring in a coach that will have us in the Final 4 immediately? Here's a list that addresses just that...The favored sons like Pearl (1 FF in 20 years), Beard (1 in 8 years), and Musselman (never been in 9 years). On average, it takes 10.5 years for a coach to reach the Final 4... So I'm just not real sure on what y'all want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HoosierFaithful Posted February 23 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 23 Can some of us just accept that others have a different opinion and that's okay? We all don't need to agree. This place would be pretty dull. But if you're still trying to get people to agree with you 85 pages later, consider if perhaps they never will? But if it makes you happy, keep going, by all means! 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 1 minute ago, HoosierFaithful said: Can some of us just accept that others have a different opinion and that's okay? We all don't need to agree. This place would be pretty dull. But if you're still trying to get people to agree with you 85 pages later, consider if perhaps they never will? But if it makes you happy, keep going, by all means! I agree to disagree with every agreement i disagree with forthwith! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 (edited) 17 minutes ago, IUFLA said: OK, then...What IS the criteria? I'm just not buying that metrics, or the "it isn't that we lose, it's HOW we lose." All coaches are going to be judged on their won/loss record...I don't care how ugly it is on either side...A win is a win, and a loss is a loss...No coach is going to get fired for "winning ugly." Do you honestly think we're going to bring in a coach that will have us in the Final 4 immediately? Here's a list that addresses just that...The favored sons like Pearl (1 FF in 20 years), Beard (1 in 8 years), and Musselman (never been in 9 years). On average, it takes 10.5 years for a coach to reach the Final 4... So I'm just not real sure on what y'all want? Unfortunately, that's the reality in CBB. How you win or lose directly dictates whether you make the tournament/the seed you get in the tournament. I don't make the rules. My general expectations of where I want the program to be: good season = make it past the first weekend/Win B1G average season = soundly make it into the tournament/top 5 in B1G down year = Bubble team (barely making it in or narrowly missing) very bad year = not considered for the tournament; play in the NIT blow shit up year = not even considered for the NIT Edited February 23 by tdhoosier 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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