2023 NFL Discussion

[IU Scott]

2 hours ago, dgambill said:

Yep. Colts are confusing…if he isn’t worth extending or paying then why do they think he is worth a first rd pick. If you have a player valuable enough someone would have to give you a first for them…why wouldn’t you want to lock them up? Unless you are trying to keep them on the cheap. Especially if a guy is recognized and loved by everyone in the locker room and seen as a leader on that side of the ball.
 

So if you don’t value him enough to extend him etc then why should a team give you a 1 for him? If you don’t see him as a cornerstone piece then why ask for a kings ransome. If you think rbs are all replaceable then take the 2 you got him for and move on. I don’t know what is being offered but it won’t be a 1…but if they get multiple day 2 picks I think he is gone.

They just want to make sure he is healthy before extending him. Obviously he is hurt to be on the PUP list.

[IU Scott]

This JT situation isn't hard to understand. The Colts letting him go out and find a trade partner is just showing him he won't get as much as he thinks he is worth.  If it is true he wants 15-16 mil a year nobody will give him that. If a team thinks he is worth that much then the compensation should be what a player of that caliber is worth. I still believe if JT played this year for the Colts and had a great year then the Colts would pay him.

Edited August 24, 2023 by IU Scott

[dgambill]

Just now, IU Scott said:

This JT situation isn't hard to understand. The Colts letting him go out and find a trade partner is just showing him he won't get ad much ad he thinks he is worth.  If it is true he wants 15-16 mil a year nobody will give him that. If a team thinks he is worth that much then the compensation should be what a player of that caliber is worth. I still believe if JT played this year for the Colts and had a great year then the Colts would pay him.

I think the 15-16 million is bogus. I don’t think that is what he was asking for. Obviously a couple teams are willing to pay him…they made trade offers to the Colts. Can’t imagine they would have convo with him and know what he is asking for and still trade for him if they won’t extend him. Some are willing to pay him…just not us. That is fine…just the communication I feel has been bad.

[IU Scott]

11 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I think the 15-16 million is bogus. I don’t think that is what he was asking for. Obviously a couple teams are willing to pay him…they made trade offers to the Colts. Can’t imagine they would have convo with him and know what he is asking for and still trade for him if they won’t extend him. Some are willing to pay him…just not us. That is fine…just the communication I feel has been bad.

I want JT back and think we should have offered 3/39

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

If the Colts think he is worth a high pick…why don’t they extend him? You just said because they are being cheap.

He is worth a high pick IF someone has extended him, as a one-year rental he isn't. I never said the Colts are being cheap, I think the Colts are being completely reasonable.

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

They do have an incentive to do it. To keep a player happy, on the field, contributing. No question we are a better team with JT than not…so now we have made our team worse by alienating our star player. Sure they have leverage but how you use it is important.

That's really bad logic to run a team by. I mean, every player would be happier if you pay them more but money is a finite resource in the NFL. I think it's pretty questionable how much better we are if JT is anything other than the 2021 version of JT, which he needs to prove he is with regards to health and playing in this offense.

The Colts did NOT alienate JT, JT is being completely unreasonable. 

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Because he has outperformed his contract and will likely continue to do so and he is a player that is a building block to having a successful season. Build goodwill with him and show your other players that if you perform we will explore every way we can to show you we value you and even if it’s financially beneficial to us not to pay you more, we will do so when one of our own has earned it. They’ve done it with other players…heck quite regularly extended them before the last year of their contract…lots of teams do. 

He hasn't outperformed his contract if he doesn't perform well this year. I don't think anyone would say 1 good year, 1 great year, and 2 poor years is outperforming your contract.

The Colts have a long track record of taking care of their own, whatever happens with JT doesn't change that, you even said it yourself. The fact that he has health and performance concerns and a new coaching regime makes it completely reasonable to anyone not looking to blame the Colts that extending him right now doesn't make sense.

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Imo the situation hasn’t been handled very well. Whether he got an extension or not we have had poor communication. Made some foot in mouth comments and generally escalated the situation instead of looked at ways to bring down the heat and come to a working agreement that would meet both sides goals and get Taylor on the field for us. I’m not taking sides I just think this all has been handled poorly.

Your take sounds like the take of someone completely removed from the situation locally. Like you are getting the national coverage and the South Florida coverage....

It's been communicated crystal clear from leadership that they want to see people perform under the new regime. It was communicated crystal clear to JT that they wanted to see if he was healthy and he threw a fit. I mean.... honestly JT looks incredibly bad for that. Like.... he looks like he was trying to borderline commit fraud and get the Colts to guarantee money to him when he wasn't healthy. 

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Lots of athletes have signed long term deals with raises after having down/bad/injury seasons. Justin Herbert just did after being hurt most of last year and having his worst season so far. Watson got a huge contract after missing a whole season with lawsuits galore. Happens in NBA, MLB, etc. my point however is not that economic principals don’t apply…just they aren’t the same set of principles as what we experience in real life. In general these people are treated much much differently than us avg joes. We say something on social media we get fired…they just have to give an apology. They beat a woman they get some counseling and maybe a suspension. We lose our jobs and go to jail….I just think for the most part it’s a very different reality. I don’t want to derail the thread and my posts are already too long for most to read. If you disagree…that’s fine. You win the arguement. I concede.

Name a RUNNINGBACK that has done that in recent years. I don't care what other sports or what more valuable positions have done... name a RUNNINGBACK. 

[KoB2011]

19 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I think the 15-16 million is bogus. I don’t think that is what he was asking for. Obviously a couple teams are willing to pay him…they made trade offers to the Colts. Can’t imagine they would have convo with him and know what he is asking for and still trade for him if they won’t extend him. Some are willing to pay him…just not us. That is fine…just the communication I feel has been bad.

I mean... if a team is willing to pay him and offer what you think he is worth, why hasn't a deal gotten done?

[ledies22]

33 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Name a RUNNINGBACK that has done that in recent years. I don't care what other sports or what more valuable positions have done... name a RUNNINGBACK. 

I believe Nick Chubb got a decent extension in '21 after missing some time in '20....?

I was thinking of Run CMC, and Kamara, but i think they got hurt after their extensions... not sure

[rico]

Cowherd says the Bears should get Trey Lance.  Interesting thought.

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, ledies22 said:

I believe Nick Chubb got a decent extension in '21 after missing some time in '20....?

I was thinking of Run CMC, and Kamara, but i think they got hurt after their extensions... not sure

Chubb missed four games the year before his extension but there weren’t the ongoing questions and his production when he did play was right where it always has been. So a bit different than JT who didn’t want the Colts to medically evaluate him prior to an extension and his performance was a lot worse. 

[dgambill]

6 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

He is worth a high pick IF someone has extended him, as a one-year rental he isn't. I never said the Colts are being cheap, I think the Colts are being completely reasonable.

That's really bad logic to run a team by. I mean, every player would be happier if you pay them more but money is a finite resource in the NFL. I think it's pretty questionable how much better we are if JT is anything other than the 2021 version of JT, which he needs to prove he is with regards to health and playing in this offense.

The Colts did NOT alienate JT, JT is being completely unreasonable. 

He hasn't outperformed his contract if he doesn't perform well this year. I don't think anyone would say 1 good year, 1 great year, and 2 poor years is outperforming your contract.

The Colts have a long track record of taking care of their own, whatever happens with JT doesn't change that, you even said it yourself. The fact that he has health and performance concerns and a new coaching regime makes it completely reasonable to anyone not looking to blame the Colts that extending him right now doesn't make sense.

Your take sounds like the take of someone completely removed from the situation locally. Like you are getting the national coverage and the South Florida coverage....

It's been communicated crystal clear from leadership that they want to see people perform under the new regime. It was communicated crystal clear to JT that they wanted to see if he was healthy and he threw a fit. I mean.... honestly JT looks incredibly bad for that. Like.... he looks like he was trying to borderline commit fraud and get the Colts to guarantee money to him when he wasn't healthy. 

You’re entitled to your take. While I disagree I’m not here to convince anyone to think the way I do. My take that there has been poor communication and poor decisions on both sides of this is pretty consistent with what a majority of people outside the Indy market feel.
 

I’m a huge fan…I went to multiple games every year when I lived near Indy and even traveled up from Kentucky to watch them for years when I lived there. Now I pay for Sunday Ticket to support and watch my team. I can still be a fan and disagree with how my team has handled a situation. Doesn’t make me right…doesn’t make me wrong. I think sometimes being outside the media bubble and fan group think where you hear lots of objective opinions from people can help. I don’t like Taylor’s methods to get a deal…but I think Indy forced him into a corner with some bad decisions and then just decided to throw away any hope of reconciling and bringing him back into the fold with the horrible comments by Irsay (which is typical for him). I’m ready to move on and hope we get a good deal..though I don’t know if that is possible.

[dgambill]

3 hours ago, rico said:

Cowherd says the Bears should get Trey Lance.  Interesting thought.

Why? They already have an inaccurate running qb? Field needs all the attention and focus they can give to get him to the next level…they don’t have time to try to fix two qbs. Besides if he sucks they should take their draft capital and get Williams…Lance is waste of time for them. Atlanta, Washington, New England, LV, Rams and several others make more sense. I’m not a big fan of Cowherd.

[5fouls]

Lance belongs in the CFL.  

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

You’re entitled to your take. While I disagree I’m not here to convince anyone to think the way I do. My take that there has been poor communication and poor decisions on both sides of this is pretty consistent with what a majority of people outside the Indy market feel.
 

I’m a huge fan…I went to multiple games every year when I lived near Indy and even traveled up from Kentucky to watch them for years when I lived there. Now I pay for Sunday Ticket to support and watch my team. I can still be a fan and disagree with how my team has handled a situation. Doesn’t make me right…doesn’t make me wrong. I think sometimes being outside the media bubble and fan group think where you hear lots of objective opinions from people can help. I don’t like Taylor’s methods to get a deal…but I think Indy forced him into a corner with some bad decisions and then just decided to throw away any hope of reconciling and bringing him back into the fold with the horrible comments by Irsay (which is typical for him). I’m ready to move on and hope we get a good deal..though I don’t know if that is possible.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, but why would you think the national media that has no clue at all is better tuned into this than the local media?

I still don't get how Indy forced him into a corner - because they didn't want to extend a guy coming off of an injury that they haven't seen play in the new system until after the year?

JT: I want an extension

Colts: We'd love to have those talks after the season when we see how you perform in this offense and that you're healthy

JT: I want the extension now

Colts: Can we at least have our doctors look at you?

JT: No! Give me the extension now for $16m/year

 

What exactly did the Colts do there?

[btownqb]

Josh Downs.. catch the ball. 

AR5 wasn't bad. We'll see. Pittman came back in. 

[KoB2011]

Just now, btownqb said:

Josh Downs.. catch the ball. 

AR5 wasn't bad. We'll see. Pittman came back in. 

I thought he looked good regardless of numbers.

• 1st Drive: Good deep ball to AP that had a lot of contact, scrambled for a first on 3 & 15 but they called a tick tack hold on Q
• 2nd Drive: TD
• 3rd Drive: TD
• 4th Drive: FG, but the throw he made the Granson that was overturned was just unreal
• 5th Drive: Dime to Downs on 3rd down that he dropped
• 6th Drive: 3 & Out right before half, wasn't great but AP did fall down coming out of his break on third down.

[rico]

8 hours ago, dgambill said:

Why? They already have an inaccurate running qb? Field needs all the attention and focus they can give to get him to the next level…they don’t have time to try to fix two qbs. Besides if he sucks they should take their draft capital and get Williams…Lance is waste of time for them. Atlanta, Washington, New England, LV, Rams and several others make more sense. I’m not a big fan of Cowherd.

I am a fan of Cowherd.  The reason being Lance would be a back-up to Fields for the season.  Running QBs tend to get nicked up.  Lance's game is similar to Fields'.  Although I wouldn't know as I have never seen Lance play.

[rico]

7 hours ago, btownqb said:

Josh Downs.. catch the ball. 

AR5 wasn't bad. We'll see. Pittman came back in. 

AR5 needs to quit playing with his hair on the sidelines.

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, rico said:

I am a fan of Cowherd.  The reason being Lance would be a back-up to Fields for the season.  Running QBs tend to get nicked up.  Lance's game is similar to Fields'.  Although I wouldn't know as I have never seen Lance play.

Some reason the only game I remember of him…he played the Bears lol….that rain game. He looked terrible but then again who wouldn’t in that slop.

[dgambill]

9 hours ago, btownqb said:

Josh Downs.. catch the ball. 

AR5 wasn't bad. We'll see. Pittman came back in. 

Going to be lots of those little miscues with such a young offense. Rookie qb, rookie wr, second year wr, lots of TEs that have missed time with injuries past couple years…I honestly expect a lot of fg attempts this year…thus why we went out and got one of the best. I don’t see us sustaining a lot of drives to where we can score. I’d feel a lot better with JT back there in the backfield because with AR holding LBs and ends with his threat to run I think JT speed he can have some big runs. 

[btownqb]

Just now, dgambill said:

Going to be lots of those little miscues with such a young offense. Rookie qb, rookie wr, second year wr, lots of TEs that have missed time with injuries past couple years…I honestly expect a lot of fg attempts this year…thus why we went out and got one of the best. I don’t see us sustaining a lot of drives to where we can score. I’d feel a lot better with JT back there in the backfield because with AR holding LBs and ends with his threat to run I think JT speed he can have some big runs. 

JT should figure out how to be a part of the Colts. He'll be forgotten going to another franchise. 

[dgambill]

10 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, but why would you think the national media that has no clue at all is better tuned into this than the local media?

I still don't get how Indy forced him into a corner - because they didn't want to extend a guy coming off of an injury that they haven't seen play in the new system until after the year?

JT: I want an extension

Colts: We'd love to have those talks after the season when we see how you perform in this offense and that you're healthy

JT: I want the extension now

Colts: Can we at least have our doctors look at you?

JT: No! Give me the extension now for $16m/year

 

What exactly did the Colts do there?

Because the local media have an agenda. They typically take the side of the team because they want continued access, favor, and info. I don’t like any of the Colts beat writers…they typically cheerlead right up to the point when the see the inevitable and someone is getting fired and then they flip flop. Also you seem to left out several of Irsays comments that inflamed the situation…which is my biggest gripe with the Colts on this. Had he not done so I think a lot of this would have been resolved.

Anyways it doesn’t really matter if we disagree. I’m sure everyone is sick of this and just want to get back to football. AR, while playing backups I thought showed good pocket awareness, some really special throws, and hopefully with a lot more reps and some mechanical work has some skills that would lend him to being special. Pleased with his performance last night.

[dgambill]

7 minutes ago, btownqb said:

JT should figure out how to be a part of the Colts. He'll be forgotten going to another franchise. 

According to Irsay he will be forgotten whether he stays with the Colts or not. 
 

I agree though I think the best fit for him is right here though. I think he could have another career year here this year.

[KoB2011]

7 hours ago, dgambill said:

According to Irsay he will be forgotten whether he stays with the Colts or not. 
 

I agree though I think the best fit for him is right here though. I think he could have another career year here this year.

I mean, he will be forgotten. Irsay included himself in that comment too. 

[Seeking6]

Of course Trey Lance is now a Cowboy. Here's a kid who was acquired for 3 1's and whatever else and now heads to Dallas (who already has a good backup qb) to what? Rebuild himself?

Never underestimate Jerry's lack of emotional intelligence to want to maybe stick it to the 49ers.