rico Posted August 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 4 hours ago, mrflynn03 said: I guess I'm old school but this is all bullshit. I know it is what it is but I hate how the love of money ruins everything. Conferences should remain relatively regional. These superconferences will ruin college sports. Guess I will watch dodgeball on ESPN ocho. Conference alignment has been going on for quite sometime. Now the regionality of the alignments is a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post tdhoosier Posted August 10, 2021 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 On 8/8/2021 at 7:46 AM, rico said: The comments here are pretty good: https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sports/kansas-big-ten-imminent-big-12-conference-realignment/ Perhaps I don’t understand this correctly, but it continues to amaze how fans do not understand why certain universities are attractive to other conferences. It always turns into a pissing contest about who has the football program with the best results. In no particular order, it seems like the criteria for the Big Ten it comes down to the following… - respectable academics - the market the school is in - the VALUE of the sports programs Recent results do not necessarily = value. Texas is valuable to the SEC, not because of their recent results - it’s their huge and dedicated fan base and the entire Texas market. Many of those comments laugh at Michigan, but they have one of the biggest and most loyal fan bases in the country. It’s all about getting viewers for the conference’s network. And we haven’t gotten into the size of the alumni bases where the B1G pretty much owns all top ten lists. Example: https://www.universitymagazine.ca/10-biggest-college-alumni-networks-u-s/ These Mizzou fans (and other commenters) think conferences are looking for schools who can bark loud with recent results. Unfortunately in many cases, these schools don’t necessarily have the numbers (in terms of following) or revenue generation to back up that bark. 9 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted August 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: Perhaps I don’t understand this correctly, but it continues to amaze how fans do not understand why certain universities are attractive to other conferences. It always turns into a pissing contest about who has the football program with the best results. In no particular order, it seems like the criteria for the Big Ten it comes down to the following… - respectable academics - the market the school is in - the VALUE of the sports programs Recent results do not necessarily = value. Texas is valuable to the SEC, not because of their recent results - it’s their huge and dedicated fan base and the entire Texas market. Many of those comments laugh at Michigan, but they have one of the biggest and most loyal fan bases in the country. It’s all about getting viewers for the conference’s network. And we haven’t gotten into the size of the alumni bases where the B1G pretty much owns all top ten lists. Example: https://www.universitymagazine.ca/10-biggest-college-alumni-networks-u-s/ These Mizzou fans (and other commenters) think conferences are looking for schools who can bark loud with recent results. Unfortunately in many cases, these schools don’t necessarily have the numbers (in terms of following) or revenue generation to back up that bark. Great post and spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuckerkorn Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 7 hours ago, mrflynn03 said: I guess I'm old school but this is all bullshit. I know it is what it is but I hate how the love of money ruins everything. Conferences should remain relatively regional. These superconferences will ruin college sports. Guess I will watch dodgeball on ESPN ocho. I feel much the same, but as you say "it is what it is". Unbalanced BB conference schedule and conference tourney both a result of expansion have taken the luster off of winning the conference, IMO. From my perspective the expansion of the big 10 beyond ten teams hasn't positive at all. But, everything in life is driven by money & politics these days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 10 hours ago, mrflynn03 said: I guess I'm old school but this is all bullshit. I know it is what it is but I hate how the love of money ruins everything. Conferences should remain relatively regional. These superconferences will ruin college sports. Guess I will watch dodgeball on ESPN ocho. Amen to that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feathery Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 If the Big Ten doesn’t expand, I can see OSU, PSU, Mich, MSU leaving for the ACC. Fertile recruiting grounds and they drive the money because of football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 11 hours ago, mrflynn03 said: I guess I'm old school but this is all bullshit. I know it is what it is but I hate how the love of money ruins everything. Conferences should remain relatively regional. These superconferences will ruin college sports. The NIL will ruin college sports first. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted August 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 41 minutes ago, Feathery said: If the Big Ten doesn’t expand, I can see OSU, PSU, Mich, MSU leaving for the ACC. Fertile recruiting grounds and they drive the money because of football. I can see the ACC disbanding because of football... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier51 Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Feathery said: If the Big Ten doesn’t expand, I can see OSU, PSU, Mich, MSU leaving for the ACC. Fertile recruiting grounds and they drive the money because of football. If OSU or Michigan ever would leave it would be to the SEC before the ACC. The B1G better not sit around and do nothing or they will get left behind. The funny thing is if something like this ever did happen Michigan would be just like Texas joining the SEC. A big money football brand but a low budget Dollar Tree on the field. Edited August 10, 2021 by Hoosier51 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 I, for one, cant wait until we have actual basketball stuff to talk about. There is still a wonderful sport out there called college basketball, despite the best efforts of college administrators chasing a buck. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feathery Posted August 11, 2021 Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 7 hours ago, Hoosier51 said: If OSU or Michigan ever would leave it would be to the SEC before the ACC. The B1G better not sit around and do nothing or they will get left behind. The funny thing is if something like this ever did happen Michigan would be just like Texas joining the SEC. A big money football brand but a low budget Dollar Tree on the field. Michigan won’t play the game like OSU does. Harbaugh is in thin ice. I’m a Michigan football fan. They have a lot of talent that Harbaugh has wasted over the years. Can’t wait for the IU Michigan football game this fall. The wife and I already have our tickets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feathery Posted August 11, 2021 Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 9 hours ago, rico said: I can see the ACC disbanding because of football... Or they go and get some brands that bring in $$$$. I don’t think standing still is an option for any conference long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier51 Posted August 11, 2021 Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 6 hours ago, Feathery said: I’m a Michigan football fan. Boo boo and another boo lol. 😀 My brother-in-law and his family are from Michigan and are Wolverines fans, so they are just a step below Turdue, Kensucky and the Illini on my contempt meter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier51 Posted August 11, 2021 Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 6 hours ago, Feathery said: Or they go and get some brands that bring in $$$$. I don’t think standing still is an option for any conference long term. I don't think their TV cotract is big enough to bring in any big name brands. They only thing they got going for them possibly is the ND alignment, if the Irish ever decides to join a conference the ACC would probably be the leader for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted August 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 16 hours ago, 5fouls said: I, for one, cant wait until we have actual basketball stuff to talk about. There is still a wonderful sport out there called college basketball, despite the best efforts of college administrators chasing a buck. So what conference is Gonzaga going to end up in? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted August 11, 2021 Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 I have to disagree with a lot of what is being discussed here. - The risk of a B1G implosion is minimal, almost non-existent. Our tv contract is still richer than the SEC's - that may change with their next deal, but we will likely pass them back next time ours gets redone. But, even if we stay behind, we're talking about 10% or so they will beat us by, and we're only talking about tv money which is less than 1/3rd of the total revenue the big schools bring in. UM and OSU are going to risk blowing up a good thing to increase their revenue by 3% (10% of 33%)? Michigan is certainly not. The SEC would destroy their talk of a "Michigan Man", and they know they can't be consistently competitive in the SEC. OSU probably thinks they can hang down there, and maybe they're right, but they have so little to gain and Ohio weather is not going to steal recruits from down south. - Our past expansion was driven by specific goals. When we added Nebraska, I believe we had to get to 12 schools to have a conference championship in football, so that 12th school added a lot of value. Maryland and Rutgers come with the biggest and 6th biggest media markets in the country, so they brought value. How many other schools are going to increase the Big 10 pie by more than the slice they will take? Very few. Notre Dame is the only non-media market school that might. If we don't get them, we have to get a big city. Maybe Boston, but there doesn't seem to be a fit. Maybe Philly, but again, I don't see a fit. We seem locked out of Texas. That leaves LA or San Fran, I would think that could be on the table, but it creates a lot of problems. So, it seems very likely things stay the same. - The only way I could see a major change happening is if the power conferences are going to break from the NCAA and run their own thing, but with the NIL, the impetus to do that is greatly reduced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierAlice Posted August 11, 2021 Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 34 minutes ago, HoosierDom said: How many other schools are going to increase the Big 10 pie by more than the slice they will take? Very few. Notre Dame is the only non-media market school that might. If we don't get them, we have to get a big city. Maybe Boston, but there doesn't seem to be a fit. Maybe Philly, but again, I don't see a fit. We seem locked out of Texas. That leaves LA or San Fran, I would think that could be on the table, but it creates a lot of problems. So, it seems very likely things stay the same. Georgia Tech would be an interesting addition. Puts the Big Ten in the south and a big city in Atlanta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted August 11, 2021 Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 34 minutes ago, HoosierAlice said: Georgia Tech would be an interesting addition. Puts the Big Ten in the south and a big city in Atlanta. I agree, though, to my mind, Georgia is the bigger power there. I don't actually know their relative sizes, but that's my impression. And I doubt we could steal them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted August 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 12 minutes ago, HoosierDom said: I agree, though, to my mind, Georgia is the bigger power there. I don't actually know their relative sizes, but that's my impression. And I doubt we could steal them. Academically, Tech is far and away the better school. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted August 11, 2021 Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 56 minutes ago, rico said: Academically, Tech is far and away the better school. Is the conference looking to improve its average SAT scores? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted August 11, 2021 Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, rico said: Academically, Tech is far and away the better school. Financially it's in the gutter in regards to it's athletics. They have massive massive debt and it effects their spending in regards to their athletics. The issue becomes if they fall far enough behind that they become so unappealing for recruits and if they are uncompetitive in an even tougher football division will they continue to fall further behind. Sure they are in a huge market but if it goes bad for them...they could end up being an anchor instead of a sail for the B1G. Imagine one of your schools going bankrupt and the blackeye on the league. I would think the B1G would stay away until they at least clean up their balance sheet. I mean no one is excited to get Kansas who basically is non-competitive in football and its purely a money grab for them...but they also are very frugal and very stabile financially even being uncompetitive. Anyways it seems the ACC is pretty tight with their contracts and members. Be almost impossible to get members out of there....heck we can't even get ND out of there so I don't see GT. I think if there is growth outside of simply Kansas and maybe ISU....it would be to go west to LA. We should use the PAC 12's poor tv contract and marketing decisions to lure away schools that want to get back to their glory days and get a bigger return on their flagship programs. Edited August 11, 2021 by dgambill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted August 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 1 hour ago, dgambill said: Financially it's in the gutter in regards to it's athletics. They have massive massive debt and it effects their spending in regards to their athletics. The issue becomes if they fall far enough behind that they become so unappealing for recruits and if they are uncompetitive in an even tougher football division will they continue to fall further behind. Sure they are in a huge market but if it goes bad for them...they could end up being an anchor instead of a sail for the B1G. Imagine one of your schools going bankrupt and the blackeye on the league. I would think the B1G would stay away until they at least clean up their balance sheet. I mean no one is excited to get Kansas who basically is non-competitive in football and its purely a money grab for them...but they also are very frugal and very stabile financially even being uncompetitive. Anyways it seems the ACC is pretty tight with their contracts and members. Be almost impossible to get members out of there....heck we can't even get ND out of there so I don't see GT. I think if there is growth outside of simply Kansas and maybe ISU....it would be to go west to LA. We should use the PAC 12's poor tv contract and marketing decisions to lure away schools that want to get back to their glory days and get a bigger return on their flagship programs. And how is it that you, miraculously, are an aficionado of the Georgia Tech finances? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted August 11, 2021 Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, rico said: And how is it that you, miraculously, are an aficionado of the Georgia Tech finances? Google. They were brought up several several pages ago. I agree the Atlanta market would be a coup for the B1G....I just don't know if Georgia Tech would inevitably be a good long term investment. Anyways like we have seen....all public universities have to release all their financial data. If I'm not mistaken Georgia Tech debt is around 229 million for the athletics department. Take this chart for help. Just their debt services PAYMENT (some say this is interest only payments) alone makes up 14% of their overall athletics expenditures. That is greater than what they spend in student scholarships (athlete financial aid). Thing is...these are from many expenditures on upgrades (buildings/facilities) etc from back in the 1990s....some already have become outdated or needing renovations. Of course I'm not suggesting they are going to go under any day now nor that no other schools have similar issues or even the B1G wouldn't accept them...but they have a lot of underlying issues with their athletics that might not make them as attractive as they would seem on first glance (if the B1G cares about those things). https://www.fromtherumbleseat.com/2021/5/31/22460827/georgia-tech-football-show-me-the-money-athletics-ncaa-finances-money-cash-ncaa-funding-public-money Edited August 11, 2021 by dgambill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted August 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 17 minutes ago, dgambill said: Google. They were brought up several several pages ago. I agree the Atlanta market would be a coup for the B1G....I just don't know if Georgia Tech would inevitably be a good long term investment. Anyways like we have seen....all public universities have to release all their financial data. If I'm not mistaken Georgia Tech debt is around 229 million for the athletics department. Take this chart for help. Just their debt services PAYMENT (some say this is interest only payments) alone makes up 14% of their overall athletics expenditures. That is greater than what they spend in student scholarships (athlete financial aid). Thing is...these are from many expenditures on upgrades (buildings/facilities) etc from back in the 1990s....some already have become outdated or needing renovations. Of course I'm not suggesting they are going to go under any day now nor that no other schools have similar issues or even the B1G wouldn't accept them...but they have a lot of underlying issues with their athletics that might not make them as attractive as they would seem on first glance (if the B1G cares about those things). https://www.fromtherumbleseat.com/2021/5/31/22460827/georgia-tech-football-show-me-the-money-athletics-ncaa-finances-money-cash-ncaa-funding-public-money Dude, no offense, but you got waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay tooooooooooooooooo much time on your hands. Ever think about taking up fishing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted August 11, 2021 Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 8 minutes ago, rico said: Dude, no offense, but you got waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay tooooooooooooooooo much time on your hands. Ever think about taking up fishing? No offense at all lol! My job has long bouts of down time in between fits of intense levels of work. It would be a dream to be able to be on a river somewhere fishing while I did it but alas I'm stuck in an office. Besides...my favorite thing to do while fishing is to read so in essence I don't really know which I like more.....reading or fishing....you catch my drift. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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