NBA Thread

[dgambill]

31 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

You can definitely make the case we should have torn it down sooner, but I think in reality we are talking about a half season difference from what would have been reasonable.

You talk as if we need to be a bottom three team for several years, but when does that actually work? Give me a good five plus examples of that approach actually resulting in good things because I don’t think the results are what you make them out to be. 

See OKC….both times….first build and second one currently being constructed under Presti. See Celtics in what they have built with high draft picks like Tatum and Brown. I like what Houston has done as well. I like what San Antonio has done….did they hang on to Murray…no they got a haul from Atlanta.  I’ve got faith in guys like Danny Ainge that what they will do in Utah. I just don’t have it with the Pacers. They are neither aggressive in moving up in drafts for guys nor do they leverage their cap space to take bad contracts to get picks like OKC and others do. I feel like they are happy being an also ran…their goal is to field a competitive team, make the playoffs, sale tickets. Don’t get me wrong…that makes a happy owner…but for a fan I want to see us take a swing. I can forgive if we go big and it doesn’t work out…but as is…I believe Musk will put a man on mars before the Pacers win it all.

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

See OKC….both times….first build and second one currently being constructed under Presti. See Celtics in what they have built with high draft picks like Tatum and Brown. I like what Houston has done as well. I like what San Antonio has done….did they hang on to Murray…no they got a haul from Atlanta.  I’ve got faith in guys like Danny Ainge that what they will do in Utah. I just don’t have it with the Pacers. They are neither aggressive in moving up in drafts for guys nor do they leverage their cap space to take bad contracts to get picks like OKC and others do. I feel like they are happy being an also ran…their goal is to field a competitive team, make the playoffs, sale tickets. Don’t get me wrong…that makes a happy owner…but for a fan I want to see us take a swing. I can forgive if we go big and it doesn’t work out…but as is…I believe Musk will put a man on mars before the Pacers win it all.

Two finals appearances and no titles out of all of those examples. I’ll do my best to respond to everything but it’s hard when you don’t break up your points in your post…

One of the Finals appearances was over a decade ago and I’m not sure was the result of tanking as much as a franchise in disarray that ended up having to relocate.

The Celtics did a pretty abbreviated tank to lead to their recent Finals appearance, I’m not sure their approach was drastically different than ours. They got more picks out of their offloading of players than we did, but how much better of a pick could we have gotten than landing Halliburton for moving Sabonis? Were we going to draft more than two All Stars when we traded PG?

Maybe the Spurs work out but let’s be real… they got lucky and got a generational talent, it wasn’t from offloading Murray for some hail different than we got for trading our All Stars in the past.

To be honest though, your expectations for a market our size are just fundamentally wrong. Since the mid 90s we’ve together three different versions of teams that almost everyone would agree we’re good enough to win it all in at least one season in their window. It just hasn’t worked out for various reasons, but that isn’t a franchise that isn’t trying to win it all.  Believe it or not other teams are trying to win too and we don’t get to operate in a vacuum. Outside of the Spurs and I guess OKC the past decade we are probably the model for how a mid market team should be run. We’ve never had the luck other franchises have for whatever reason outside of our control, but we continuously put ourselves in good situations waiting for our break. 

[BGleas]

17 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Looks like Lillard is asking for a trade and would like to go to Miami. I know trades are different now but I don't see Miami having enough to trade for him. I would ask for Ban to start with but it appears it could start with Herro and picks.  To me that is not nearly enough for a player lol me Lillard 

Houston is spending the money with signing Dillon Brooks and Van Fleet 

The Lillard thing will be interesting. Sounds like he's only interested in being traded to Miami, yet Miami probably has the least of any realistic team in terms of assets. 

If I'm Portland, out of respect to Dame, I'd tell him that we'll accommodate his request to trade him to Miami as best as we can, but tell him exactly what we require in a trade and that it's up to his agent and Pat Riley to find a way to make it happen. 

Do whatever his agent and Riley need to do to get the requisite assets, whether it be finding a 3rd or even 4th teams to get involved, and we're happy to play ball. 

But they need to go figure it out and we'll give you X days to make it happen, then we need to move on to offers from San Antonio, Brooklyn, Philly, Boston, whoever. 

We'll work with you, but we're not giving you away for pennies on the dollar out of "loyalty". 

[BGleas]

 

 

[BGleas]

Didn't see this one posted anywhere a couple of days ago. Will be interesting to see if he's able to stay in the league?

Have always pulled for him, while also not really loving his game. Struggled to find any real attribute that stood out in Boston, any consistency and couldn't stay healthy. 

Sounds like similar in SA. 

 

 

[Drroogh]

SIAP but Will Sheehey is one of the assistant coaches for TJD’s summer league team!

Will Sheehey coaching Warriors summer team

[Seeking6]

Wasn't sure whether to post this in here or elsewhere. Does anyone even remember Bane from high school or not? Talk about an Indiana kid. Small private school in Richmond with zero D1 offers while averaging 30.....gets one to TCU and now max contract.

I'm trying to remember a more meteoric rise. PS...I know Crean's time was winding down but why did nobody in Big 10 country see his game? Geez...

[dgambill]

5 hours ago, BGleas said:

The Lillard thing will be interesting. Sounds like he's only interested in being traded to Miami, yet Miami probably has the least of any realistic team in terms of assets. 

If I'm Portland, out of respect to Dame, I'd tell him that we'll accommodate his request to trade him to Miami as best as we can, but tell him exactly what we require in a trade and that it's up to his agent and Pat Riley to find a way to make it happen. 

Do whatever his agent and Riley need to do to get the requisite assets, whether it be finding a 3rd or even 4th teams to get involved, and we're happy to play ball. 

But they need to go figure it out and we'll give you X days to make it happen, then we need to move on to offers from San Antonio, Brooklyn, Philly, Boston, whoever. 

We'll work with you, but we're not giving you away for pennies on the dollar out of "loyalty". 

Imo just about any trade involving Harden or Lillard probably involve the Knicks and their crap load of picks. I could see Robinson and Herro to New York who send picks out to Portland…or could see Harden to NY. It’s just hard to see who has the right pieces to make the deal happen. NY has picks and salaries. We know where Lillard wants to end up…wonder where Harden wants to go.

[BGleas]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Imo just about any trade involving Harden or Lillard probably involve the Knicks and their crap load of picks. I could see Robinson and Herro to New York who send picks out to Portland…or could see Harden to NY. It’s just hard to see who has the right pieces to make the deal happen. NY has picks and salaries. We know where Lillard wants to end up…wonder where Harden wants to go.

It would be such a Knick move to trade for James Harden. I almost hope it happens. 

I'm sure the Knicks will be involved on one of those moves, but there are several teams that have the assets, including picks, to make a Lillard trade work. SA, Philly, Boston can do it. 

Miami would have to get the Knicks, Brooklyn or someone simular involved. 

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

It would be such a Knick move to trade for James Harden. I almost hope it happens. 

I'm sure the Knicks will be involved on one of those moves, but there are several teams that have the assets, including picks, to make a Lillard trade work. SA, Philly, Boston can do it. 

Miami would have to get the Knicks, Brooklyn or someone simular involved. 

SA would be crazy to give up picks. Not sure Philly has anything to offer to get Lillard. Hard to see Boston making a major move until they see how Brown, Tatum, and Porzingis gel. Pelicans are a team I’m interested in….Portland couldn’t put a complementary team around Lillard and CJ…I think Pelicans could. They have tons of picks…plus if they choose to move Zion that is a team I think could catapult into top 4 in the West. Lillard, CJ, Ingram, Jones, Val. With Murphy/Alvarado/Daniels coming off the bench. If they moved a couple other guys plus another pick they could likely land some more depth up front as well. I know I’d throw in a combo of Theis/Nesmeth/Smith for the Laker pick or heck I’d throw in Myles for a swap of Val plus picks. That be an interesting team. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by dgambill

[BGleas]

22 minutes ago, dgambill said:

SA would be crazy to give up picks. Not sure Philly has anything to offer to get Lillard. Hard to see Boston making a major move until they see how Brown, Tatum, and Porzingis gel. Pelicans are a team I’m interested in….Portland couldn’t put a complementary team around Lillard and CJ…I think Pelicans could. They have tons of picks…plus if they choose to move Zion that is a team I think could catapult into top 4 in the West. Lillard, CJ, Ingram, Jones, Val. With Murphy/Alvarado/Daniels coming off the bench. If they moved a couple other guys plus another pick they could likely land some more depth up front as well. I know I’d throw in a combo of Theis/Nesmeth/Smith for the Laker pick or heck I’d throw in Myles for a swap of Val plus picks. That be an interesting team. 

Philly could offer a young and improving Tyrese Maxey, along with a huge expiring deal in Tobias Harris, and 2-3 1st round picks. 

Maxey might not fit great with Simon's, Sharpe and Scoot, but he also might end up the best of all of them (keyword being might). 

That's certainly better then any deal Miami can offer without pulling other teams in. 

I don't think the Celtics do anything here, but waiting to see how Brown, Tatum and Porzingas gel won't be why. 

The Celtics could offer a still young Rob Williams, a great fit for Portland if healthy (yes, I know a big if), Brogdon's contract and 2-3 first round picks. 

But again, the real larger point I'm making, that I think we agree on, is that numerous teams can offer way better deals than Miami can in any 1-1 deal with Portland. 

Miami is going to need to get creative. Luckily for them they have Pat Riley. 

[dgambill]

26 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Philly could offer a young and improving Tyrese Maxey, along with a huge expiring deal in Tobias Harris, and 2-3 1st round picks. 

Maxey might not fit great with Simon's, Sharpe and Scoot, but he also might end up the best of all of them (keyword being might). 

That's certainly better then any deal Miami can offer without pulling other teams in. 

I don't think the Celtics do anything here, but waiting to see how Brown, Tatum and Porzingas gel won't be why. 

The Celtics could offer a still young Rob Williams, a great fit for Portland if healthy (yes, I know a big if), Brogdon's contract and 2-3 first round picks. 

But again, the real larger point I'm making, that I think we agree on, is that numerous teams can offer way better deals than Miami can in any 1-1 deal with Portland. 

Miami is going to need to get creative. Luckily for them they have Pat Riley. 

Yeah Miami has nothing I’d want….but I get why Lillard would want to go there. On top of no state taxes it’s a beautiful place to live.

Boston would be making a mistake to move Williams. He was an anchor on defense for them. No way they can survive losing Smart and Williams. But they do have tradable assets I just think they need to target pieces that fit what they already have…not completely change their culture. 
 

I like Maxey a lot….think he will really shine with Harden moving on. I actually think if they made a move for Paul George that would be a good fit. The East has some really dominant wings and I think he would be a better fit for them going up against Boston/Miami/Bucks. Maybe they make a 3 team deal with Toronto and land Siakam.

Edited July 2, 2023 by dgambill

[KoB2011]

5 hours ago, BGleas said:

Didn't see this one posted anywhere a couple of days ago. Will be interesting to see if he's able to stay in the league?

Have always pulled for him, while also not really loving his game. Struggled to find any real attribute that stood out in Boston, any consistency and couldn't stay healthy. 

Sounds like similar in SA. 

 

 

Romeo’s story is a bit of a head scratcher.

Great high school career, tough one season to judge at IU, and then it’s hard to not call him a bust in the NBA. 

[KoB2011]

3 hours ago, BGleas said:

It would be such a Knick move to trade for James Harden. I almost hope it happens. 

I'm sure the Knicks will be involved on one of those moves, but there are several teams that have the assets, including picks, to make a Lillard trade work. SA, Philly, Boston can do it. 

Miami would have to get the Knicks, Brooklyn or someone simular involved. 

I struggle to see how Miami can pull it off. Who are they shipping to this third team to get them to give enough picks and young assets to the Blazers?

[BGleas]

Just now, KoB2011 said:

Romeo’s story is a bit of a head scratcher.

Great high school career, tough one season to judge at IU, and then it’s hard to not call him a bust in the NBA. 

Want to preface this with I like Langford and am always happy he chose IU. I'm not in Indiana and certainly understand how great he was in high school, bit didn't watch it. Didn't see him play, etc.

With that said, as an IU and Celtics fan I've always been fairly underwhelmed with Langford. 

I don't mean to knock him and understand averaging 17-18ppg as a freshmen in the Big Ten is no joke whatsoever. But, I just never felt he really contributed to winning that much. He'd have the quietest 17 points you'd ever see. 

He couldn't shoot, couldn't go left at all, etc. Archie got blamed for him standing in fhe corner on offense, but I watched 2+ years in Boston and that's all he ever did there too. 

I get Boston had Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, etc., bit guys like Semi Ojeleye and Jevonte Green would come in and get involved, while Langford would just stand there and literally run away from the ball. 

I've just never seen it with him, and he's never really gotten any better. 

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I struggle to see how Miami can pull it off. Who are they shipping to this third team to get them to give enough picks and young assets to the Blazers?

Someone has to love Herro and Robinson…Jovic plus picks….not sure who is high enough on that package to get excited. 

[KoB2011]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Want to preface this with I like Langford and am always happy he chose IU. I'm not in Indiana and certainly understand how great he was in high school, bit didn't watch it. Didn't see him play, etc.

With that said, as an IU and Celtics fan I've always been fairly underwhelmed with Langford. 

I don't mean to knock him and understand averaging 17-18ppg as a freshmen in the Big Ten is no joke whatsoever. But, I just never felt he really contributed to winning that much. He'd have the quietest 17 points you'd ever see. 

He couldn't shoot, couldn't go left at all, etc. Archie got blamed for him standing in fhe corner on offense, but I watched 2+ years in Boston and that's all he ever did there too. 

I get Boston had Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, etc., bit guys like Semi Ojeleye and Jevonte Green would come in and get involved, while Langford would just stand there and literally run away from the ball. 

I've just never seen it with him, and he's never really gotten any better. 

I mean I agree. He was kind of a one trick pony in terms of scoring (drive right) and didn’t do much else to impact winning on either end. The further up he moved in the basketball world, the less the one trick would work efficiently.

[KoB2011]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Someone has to love Herro and Robinson…Jovic plus picks….not sure who is high enough on that package to get excited. 

I don’t think there’s a lot to love there. And if I’m the third team I’m wanting an overpay for sending my picks to help out Miami, and that package is not an overpay IMO. 

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

I mean I agree. He was kind of a one trick pony in terms of scoring (drive right) and didn’t do much else to impact winning on either end. The further up he moved in the basketball world, the less the one trick would work efficiently.

Agree. Just picking a few random but seemingly similar guys, but how have Tyrese Maxey, Immanuel Quickly and to a bit of a lesser extent Terrance Mann all be come so much better than Langford?

No reason I can come up with, other than work ethic, that those guys range from borderline star, high end rotation player and rotation player, compared to Langford who might be out of the league. 

[TheWatShot]

16 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Want to preface this with I like Langford and am always happy he chose IU. I'm not in Indiana and certainly understand how great he was in high school, bit didn't watch it. Didn't see him play, etc.

With that said, as an IU and Celtics fan I've always been fairly underwhelmed with Langford. 

I don't mean to knock him and understand averaging 17-18ppg as a freshmen in the Big Ten is no joke whatsoever. But, I just never felt he really contributed to winning that much. He'd have the quietest 17 points you'd ever see. 

He couldn't shoot, couldn't go left at all, etc. Archie got blamed for him standing in fhe corner on offense, but I watched 2+ years in Boston and that's all he ever did there too. 

I get Boston had Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, etc., bit guys like Semi Ojeleye and Jevonte Green would come in and get involved, while Langford would just stand there and literally run away from the ball. 

I've just never seen it with him, and he's never really gotten any better. 

I always thought he was a passive player playing for a passive coach. Not a desirable combination. 

[BGleas]

6 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

I always thought he was a passive player playing for a passive coach. Not a desirable combination. 

Not trying to defend Archie, but Langford was the same in Boston under Brad Stevens. 

[5fouls]

11 hours ago, BGleas said:

Not trying to defend Archie, but Langford was the same in Boston under Brad Stevens. 

Do you think he was ever told by either of those coaches to 'Stop standing in the freaking corner!'?

I loved Romeo as a high school player.  It cant be overstated how much he meant to high school basketball in the southern part of the state.

But.....it was evident to me early on in his IU career that something was missing.  While some of it was certainly attributable to Archie, I still knew I was not looking at a future NBA all-star.  

He'll probably get one more chance, but I would not be totally shocked if his NBA career was over.

[KoB2011]

19 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Do you think he was ever told by either of those coaches to 'Stop standing in the freaking corner!'?

I loved Romeo as a high school player.  It cant be overstated how much he meant to high school basketball in the southern part of the state.

But.....it was evident to me early on in his IU career that something was missing.  While some of it was certainly attributable to Archie, I still knew I was not looking at a future NBA all-star.  

He'll probably get one more chance, but I would not be totally shocked if his NBA career was over.

Yes I think he was told to stop standing in the corner by both coaches. I’m fairly confident Archie Miller, Brad Stevens and then Pop all tried to coach the kid up and he just didn’t get it. It’s on him and possibly some of the people from earlier on in his life/his parents that he didn’t develop into an NBA caliber player.

I personally think it was too easy for him scoring in the one way he knows how in high school and AAU and the people around him did a huge disservice not having him develop further. The lack of quality feedback he got growing up probably made it really hard for him to take it when he got to levels that required further development. It’s not an uncommon phenomenon that people who have things come easy to them struggle when it no longer comes easy.

That said, it’s really easy to say all of that in hindsight. He was arguably the biggest high school star in this state since Damon Bailey. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by KoB2011

[NotIThatLives]

Go back and refresh your memory of how good he looked in high school.  He would score from all three levels with ease, being face guarded, full court and then double teamed at 2/3s court and then triple teamed by the 3 point line.  He was so elusive in slipping through the defense.  I'm not sure what went wrong, confidence shattered, injuries, coaching and work ethic.  Combination of all of those I believe.   

[13th&Jackson]

17 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Wasn't sure whether to post this in here or elsewhere. Does anyone even remember Bane from high school or not? Talk about an Indiana kid. Small private school in Richmond with zero D1 offers while averaging 30.....gets one to TCU and now max contract.

I'm trying to remember a more meteoric rise. PS...I know Crean's time was winding down but why did nobody in Big 10 country see his game? Geez...

Yeah, Bane is a great story. I lived in Richmond when he played at Seton Catholic. He was overlooked and doubted because of their schedule. Seton is tiny. They have fewer than 90 students in grades 9-12. This is Seton's schedule:

https://files.ecatholic.com/11258/documents/2023/1/2022-23 V Boys BB Schedule Updated-1.pdf?t=1673387622000

Here are a couple of good articles about Bane. The Bob Wettig tournament his senior year was notable. It proved that he could dominate against good competition. Still didn't get any offers from P5 schools other than TCU. 

Many believed his decision to stay at Seton hurt him.

With Seton being among the smallest schools in the state, their schedule was against mostly Class A and 2A teams. Some said he wasn’t good enough to play at Richmond, or any 4A school. Many believed he couldn’t put up the numbers he was putting up against those bigger schools.

Entering Bane’s senior year, Seton returned to Richmond’s prestigious annual Bob Wettig Memorial Holiday Tournament, a 16-team tournament considered among the top holiday tournaments in the state.

Their first-round opponent? Richmond, a program coming off its first semistate appearance since winning the state championship in 1992, was under a new head coach. Seton, and Bane, had all the motivation in the world.

Final Score: Seton 62, Richmond 58.

Bane finished with 33 points, 15 rebounds, five assists and four blocked shots.

Bane added 26 points, 14 rebounds, nine assists, seven steals and three blocked shots in a 72-61 win over Hamilton Heights (3A), 36 points, eight rebounds, seven assists, three steals and four blocked shots in a 68-61 loss to Bedford North Lawrence (4A), and 35 points, 12 rebounds, six assists, four steals and four blocked shots in a 61-57 win over Warren Central (4A).

https://www.pal-item.com/story/sports/college/2018/03/17/march-madness-2018-how-tcu-and-desmond-bane-became-perfect-match/434658002/

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/2022/02/17/desmond-bane-takes-twisting-path-nba-but-he-there-now-memphis-grizzlies/6806666001/