NBA Thread

[rico]

10 hours ago, dgambill said:

That’s too funny!

And very appropriate!  lol

[btownqb]

12 hours ago, dgambill said:

I’m not here to hate on the Pacers…our whole history…I love the Pacers. I just think the reload instead of total rebuild was short sighted…and now when we bottomed out we still didn’t just tank 100% the last few years…we’ve constantly had our eye on making the play in. I want to see us committed to it. That’s all I’ve been saying. 
 

Look the Central is full of small market teams…and they’ve all had significant success….they’ve all won it all except us. Chicago, Detroit, Milwaulkie, and Cleveland have all had more success than us. I’d just like to see our owner allow the GM to tear it all down…stock pile picks from our valuable pieces, and invest in high draft picks. That’s all.

The CLE Cavs have had significant success? 

I don't agree those franchises are any better than the Pacers though. Bulls, I guess, because of MJ... the others are just as mediocre as the Pacers. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by btownqb

[dgambill]

5 hours ago, btownqb said:

The CLE Cavs have had significant success? 

I don't agree those franchises are any better than the Pacers though. Bulls, I guess, because of MJ... the others are just as mediocre as the Pacers. 

We are the only ones not to win a championship. All of them have found themselves at the top of the division and league at various points…and yes Chicago is a bigger market team but they have still been run by a thrifty owner who almost never pays into the luxury tax…so they operate like a small market team. I’m hopeful we find our star player to build around….i think Hali is a great building block and would be a great pg next to a couple of star wings but we just haven’t identified those stars to play next to him. I hope we find them…it was my hopes we would commit to a full tank last year and this year and identify a couple of those guys and then build off that core. Mathurin and Walker look like solid players…but I don’t see superstars in their skill sets. So I’m just waiting to see how we address that lack of star power.

[dgambill]

5 hours ago, rico said:

And very appropriate!  lol

Well I can laugh at myself…but I find it funny on an IU board I catch more heat about about Pacer criticism than I do criticizing IU lol. But I’m open to it. Comes with the territory.

Edited June 26, 2023 by dgambill

[rico]

3 hours ago, dgambill said:

We are the only ones not to win a championship. All of them have found themselves at the top of the division and league at various points…and yes Chicago is a bigger market team but they have still been run by a thrifty owner who almost never pays into the luxury tax…so they operate like a small market team. I’m hopeful we find our star player to build around….i think Hali is a great building block and would be a great pg next to a couple of star wings but we just haven’t identified those stars to play next to him. I hope we find them…it was my hopes we would commit to a full tank last year and this year and identify a couple of those guys and then build off that core. Mathurin and Walker look like solid players…but I don’t see superstars in their skill sets. So I’m just waiting to see how we address that lack of star power.

JMO but I feel you can recognize a superstar early on.  The Pacers have no recognizable ones.

[KoB2011]

2 hours ago, rico said:

JMO but I feel you can recognize a superstar early on.  The Pacers have no recognizable ones.

Halliburton at age 22 >>>>>>>> Steph or Steve Nash. 

[rico]

13 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Halliburton at age 22 >>>>>>>> Steph or Steve Nash. 

We shall see if Haliburton will put the team on his back and compete for championships.

[dgambill]

30 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Halliburton at age 22 >>>>>>>> Steph or Steve Nash. 

He has been good….on REALLY bad teams…and his play has yet to really translate to wins. That said the leap those two made were huge…and yet only one of them won a championship.

[IU Scott]

I can't believe some of these one sided trades in the NBA. Hawks trade Collins to Utah for Rudy Gay and a second round picks.  With this and the Beal trade it is just about salary dumps.  

Some trades last year really hurt the trade market with Minnesota giving up 5 first round picks for Rudy Gorbert. I guess the asking price for players like OG is starting at 3-4 first round picks. This will make it hard to make good trades 

 

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

He has been good….on REALLY bad teams…and his play has yet to really translate to wins. That said the leap those two made were huge…and yet only one of them won a championship.

Brother…. I thought you were mad the Pacers weren’t really bad last year, now you’re discrediting Hali for being on a really bad team? It seems like you’re just just looking to complain and you change your story post to post at this point…

And I get it, a championship is the ultimate goal, but only one team can win it every year and there’s a lot of luck involved. You can’t control injuries, bad calls, and lots of other stuff outside of your control (having to go through Jordan and Lebron in their prime with your best team for example). If you were picking guys under 25 to start a team with right now Hali would be very high on the list. The Pacers looked like a very good team last year prior to his injuries so I’m not sure how you can say he didn’t impact winning - seems to me he had a huge influence on winning. 

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, rico said:

We shall see if Haliburton will put the team on his back and compete for championships.

Sure he has a lot to prove still, but you said you could tell by his age and I’m not sure how would could rule him out at this age. He’s still 5 years from his prime. 

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

Brother…. I thought you were mad the Pacers weren’t really bad last year, now you’re discrediting Hali for being on a really bad team? It seems like you’re just just looking to complain and you change your story post to post at this point…

And I get it, a championship is the ultimate goal, but only one team can win it every year and there’s a lot of luck involved. You can’t control injuries, bad calls, and lots of other stuff outside of your control (having to go through Jordan and Lebron in their prime with your best team for example). If you were picking guys under 25 to start a team with right now Hali would be very high on the list. The Pacers looked like a very good team last year prior to his injuries so I’m not sure how you can say he didn’t impact winning - seems to me he had a huge influence on winning. 

Hali is fine…but what did I say that was incorrect? How many winning teams has he played on? Now we are talking about bringing in Harrison Barnes. So we are going to have 3/5 of the starting lineup from a Kings team that had been a perineal loser until last year when Sabonis came over and Fox took his game to the next level. I pray we don’t add Barnes.

[KoB2011]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Hali is fine…but what did I say that was incorrect? How many winning teams has he played on? Now we are talking about bringing in Harrison Barnes. So we are going to have 3/5 of the starting lineup from a Kings team that had been a perineal loser until last year when Sabonis came over and Fox took his game to the next level. I pray we don’t add Barnes.

You said the Pacers are really bad, but you’ve spent how many posts complaining the Pacers weren’t really bad and were too close to making the play-in? Which is it?

Hali is more than fine. He’s arguably the best player under 25 not named Luka.

I don’t have a strong opinion on Barnes, but he does have a championship pedigree and played a key role in the Kings turnaround. We could bring in worse veterans…

I get it, you want us to tank. It’s not going to happen next season though. You have a different near-term goal for the Pacers than their leadership (and most fans, at least that live in Indy). 

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Hali is fine…but what did I say that was incorrect? How many winning teams has he played on? Now we are talking about bringing in Harrison Barnes. So we are going to have 3/5 of the starting lineup from a Kings team that had been a perineal loser until last year when Sabonis came over and Fox took his game to the next level. I pray we don’t add Barnes.

If they brought Barnes in then Held won't start.

These are the starters next year and think 4 are pretty set

Haliburton

Mathurin

Walker 

Turner

 

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

You said the Pacers are really bad, but you’ve spent how many posts complaining the Pacers weren’t really bad and were too close to making the play-in? Which is it?

Hali is more than fine. He’s arguably the best player under 25 not named Luka.

I don’t have a strong opinion on Barnes, but he does have a championship pedigree and played a key role in the Kings turnaround. We could bring in worse veterans…

I get it, you want us to tank. It’s not going to happen next season though. You have a different near-term goal for the Pacers than their leadership (and most fans, at least that live in Indy). 

The old saying is never take winning for granted and winning picks the year and not you. At the middle School f the year I was wanting to make the playoffs because at least hat time we were 4th. I don't think you ever go into a season thinking about tanking but if you are bad that will take care for itself. You should always go into the office season trying to build a playoff team.

You don't build championship teams only with top draft picks. Orlando has had the #1 pick 4 times and never won a championship. Sacramento has been in the lottery for 16 straight years and never won anything.

If the only thing you base things are on championships you will be disappointed most of your life. 

[rico]

12 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Sure he has a lot to prove still, but you said you could tell by his age and I’m not sure how would could rule him out at this age. He’s still 5 years from his prime. 

Perhaps you are right and my opinion is skewed because I just don't watch enough games.  Either way I am a Pacer fan going back to the ABA days.  Getting a Batman or Robin ain't easy.  This I have come to know.

[KoB2011]

2 hours ago, rico said:

Perhaps you are right and my opinion is skewed because I just don't watch enough games.  Either way I am a Pacer fan going back to the ABA days.  Getting a Batman or Robin ain't easy.  This I have come to know.

I don’t disagree that it is hard to get those guys. I think we have at a minimum a Robin with Hali, if not a Batman. What I’m less sure of is if Mathurin is one of those guys or just a really good third option. 

[dgambill]

15 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

You said the Pacers are really bad, but you’ve spent how many posts complaining the Pacers weren’t really bad and were too close to making the play-in? Which is it?

Hali is more than fine. He’s arguably the best player under 25 not named Luka.

I don’t have a strong opinion on Barnes, but he does have a championship pedigree and played a key role in the Kings turnaround. We could bring in worse veterans…

I get it, you want us to tank. It’s not going to happen next season though. You have a different near-term goal for the Pacers than their leadership (and most fans, at least that live in Indy). 

We are bad at being bad. We’ve never tried to tank with our full effort. We’ve continued to play veterans and starters late into last couple seasons with nothing to play for. Other teams shut down their guys. That’s all I’m saying. I don’t like being stuck in mediocrity….a tough first rd out. I think Pacer brass are happy with that and I don’t think they were committed to landing in that top tier or even trying to trade picks to move up into that top tier the past couple years. I know I want it built differently than others…but without those cornerstones of your franchise like the Tatums, Gianis, KD, Lebrons etc it is really long shot to find those guys in the middle to late part of the draft. Taking guys like Duarte who are like 24/25 year old rookies over a 19/20 year old kid to me is short sighted. Guys with limited upside and will be solid bench guys or rotational pieces are not what we need. Those are guys we can land in free agency. We can’t land stars in FA. That’s all I’m saying.
 

I do think now it’s too late to tank. Unless Haliburton goes down again we will be in that 6-9 seed this year. I just wish we had done a proper job the past 2-3 years of tanking and taking shots and guys with higher upsides. We wanted Kuminga but we could have landed him in the draft a few years ago if we would have agressively looked to offer GS trade value in either straight up or multi team deal. If we wanted Whitmore this year why did we get rid of our late first and second rd picks before the draft instead of working to move up and be in position to take someone that slid. You don’t think if we had shopped Heild, 29, 32 for a swap with LA and some of their trash we couldn’t have had 17? We couldn’t work out a deal to take Dallas bad contracts then and move up to 10 by offering Turner and pick/s? Why does OKC take on everyone’s bad contracts and stack up/move up and continue to amass talent? Why can’t we do that? That’s my only gist. We are far from a horrible franchise…but I do think we play checkers sometimes and there are some really good GMs out there constantly getting great deals done with far less (chess).

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by dgambill

[rico]

43 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I don’t disagree that it is hard to get those guys. I think we have at a minimum a Robin with Hali, if not a Batman. What I’m less sure of is if Mathurin is one of those guys or just a really good third option. 

I hope you are right about Hali.  Go Pacers!

[rico]

8 minutes ago, dgambill said:

We are bad at being bad. We’ve never tried to tank with our full effort. We’ve continued to play veterans and starters late into last couple seasons with nothing to play for. Other teams shut down their guys. That’s all I’m saying. I don’t like being stuck in mediocrity….a tough first rd out. I think Pacer brass are happy with that and I don’t think they were committed to landing in that top tier or even trying to trade picks to move up into that top tier the past couple years. I know I want it built differently than others…but without those cornerstones of your franchise like the Tatums, Gianis, KD, Lebrons etc it is really long shot to find those guys in the middle to late part of the draft. Taking guys like Duarte who are like 24/25 year old rookies over a 19/20 year old kid to me is short sighted. Guys with limited upside and will be solid bench guys or rotational pieces are not what we need. Those are guys we can land in free agency. We can’t land stars in FA. That’s all I’m saying.
 

I do think now it’s too late to tank. Unless Haliburton goes down again we will be in that 6-9 seed this year. I just wish we had done a proper job the past 2-3 years of tanking and taking shots and guys with higher upsides. We wanted Kuminga but we could have landed him in the draft a few years ago if we would have agressively looked to offer GS trade value in either straight up or multi team deal. If we wanted Whitmore this year why did we get rid of our late first and second rd picks before the draft instead of working to move up and be in position to take someone that slid. You don’t think if we had shopped Heild, 29, 32 for a swap with LA and some of their trash we couldn’t have had 17? We couldn’t work out a deal to take Dallas bad contracts then and move up to 10 by offering Turner and pick/s? Why does OKC take on everyone’s bad contracts and stack up/move up and continue to amass talent? Why can’t we do that? That’s my only gist. We are far from a horrible franchise…but I do think we play checkers sometimes and there are some really good GMs out there constantly getting great deals done with far less (chess).

 

Why are you always harping about the Jerry Lewis Tankathon?

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, rico said:

Why are you always harping about the Jerry Lewis Tankathon?

I’d like to have had a somewhat theoretical chance to land VW or even Scoot this past year. Same thing last year…would have been nice to land Banchero or Chet etc…or like I said a couple years back move up to get a guy like Kuminga, Giddy, Barnes. I’ll let it go. Sorry.

[rico]

24 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I’d like to have had a somewhat theoretical chance to land VW or even Scoot this past year. Same thing last year…would have been nice to land Banchero or Chet etc…or like I said a couple years back move up to get a guy like Kuminga, Giddy, Barnes. I’ll let it go. Sorry.

No apologies needed.  You are entitled to your opinion/opinions.  

[dgambill]

3 minutes ago, rico said:

No apologies needed.  You are entitled to your opinion/opinions.  

I know…but I also know my arguements have gotten stale…moving on!

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

We are bad at being bad. We’ve never tried to tank with our full effort. We’ve continued to play veterans and starters late into last couple seasons with nothing to play for. Other teams shut down their guys. That’s all I’m saying. I don’t like being stuck in mediocrity….a tough first rd out. I think Pacer brass are happy with that and I don’t think they were committed to landing in that top tier or even trying to trade picks to move up into that top tier the past couple years. I know I want it built differently than others…but without those cornerstones of your franchise like the Tatums, Gianis, KD, Lebrons etc it is really long shot to find those guys in the middle to late part of the draft. Taking guys like Duarte who are like 24/25 year old rookies over a 19/20 year old kid to me is short sighted. Guys with limited upside and will be solid bench guys or rotational pieces are not what we need. Those are guys we can land in free agency. We can’t land stars in FA. That’s all I’m saying.
 

I do think now it’s too late to tank. Unless Haliburton goes down again we will be in that 6-9 seed this year. I just wish we had done a proper job the past 2-3 years of tanking and taking shots and guys with higher upsides. We wanted Kuminga but we could have landed him in the draft a few years ago if we would have agressively looked to offer GS trade value in either straight up or multi team deal. If we wanted Whitmore this year why did we get rid of our late first and second rd picks before the draft instead of working to move up and be in position to take someone that slid. You don’t think if we had shopped Heild, 29, 32 for a swap with LA and some of their trash we couldn’t have had 17? We couldn’t work out a deal to take Dallas bad contracts then and move up to 10 by offering Turner and pick/s? Why does OKC take on everyone’s bad contracts and stack up/move up and continue to amass talent? Why can’t we do that? That’s my only gist. We are far from a horrible franchise…but I do think we play checkers sometimes and there are some really good GMs out there constantly getting great deals done with far less (chess).

 

Last year both Haliburton and Turner didn't play in the last 13 or so games.

[IUALUM03]

The Pacers have easily been one of the highest performing organizations in the last 30 years championships aside.  The problem with the Pacers is they try to do it the right way without tanking (don't even get me started on the lottery system.  Fully believe they should do a playoff with the worst 8 teams for a shot at the #1 pick).  Have they had their hiccups...of course, but ultimately it is one of the more consistent, better run teams in the league, despite being in a small market.