13th&Jackson Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 3 hours ago, btownqb said: It will be tough for JHS to not throw a lob to TJD 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: Absolutely... When @DC2345 said Bates was gone and I doubted it, when it happened, I tipped my cap to him... You trying to lecture me on what it takes to be a man is pretty funny... that’s pretty different than projections being wrong, it’s a yes or a no. There is a rich irony in being the champion of “I was first to be excited about Woodson” club while also being the last off the “Archie will take us where we need to go” bus. And I didn’t lecture anyone on being a man, I said I’m man enough to admit when I’m wrong. My initial reaction about both Woody and Archie was wrong as a matter of fact, no problem admitting either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWatShot Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 On 6/23/2023 at 8:58 AM, BGleas said: As a Celtics fan, I would be pissed if Brad Stevens was even wasting a second thinking about whether he should draft a Boston College or UConn kid out of some sort of local loyalty. Makes no sense at the professional level. Indiana fans (and Purdue fans, for that matter) have this weird fascination and bond with players who come from Indiana. I've never quite figured out why, or why it seems to be exclusive to this state. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 3 hours ago, TheWatShot said: Indiana fans (and Purdue fans, for that matter) have this weird fascination and bond with players who come from Indiana. I've never quite figured out why, or why it seems to be exclusive to this state. I think it’s because high school and college basketball means so much more to people from Indiana than just about any other place with professional teams. Also, IN and PU have both emphasized IN kids over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 24, 2023 Report Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, TheWatShot said: Indiana fans (and Purdue fans, for that matter) have this weird fascination and bond with players who come from Indiana. I've never quite figured out why, or why it seems to be exclusive to this state. It use to be more prevalent in other places too... Up until 1966 the NBA allowed "territorial draft picks" to get local kids on local teams and build more of a following... Wilt Chamberlain played high school basketball in Philadelphia... That's how he wound up on the (at that time) Philadelphia Warriors... Same with Oscar Robertson and Jerry Lucas on the Cincinnati Royals... Same with the ABA... They knew George McGinnis would be more valuable to the league with the Pacers than any other team simply because he was a local kid... And @13th&Jackson has it right... Basketball is viewed differently in Indiana at all levels, and we like local kids playing at local colleges and if possible, on the pro team... loyalty I guess you'd call it... A bit anachronistic in modern day maybe, but that's the way I see it... Edited June 25, 2023 by IUFLA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 7 hours ago, TheWatShot said: Indiana fans (and Purdue fans, for that matter) have this weird fascination and bond with players who come from Indiana. I've never quite figured out why, or why it seems to be exclusive to this state. Frankly, what some think is weird, I find perfectly natural. Not ashamed at all to say i will be rooting for the Warriors next season (sorry JHS, I wamt you to do well, but I cant root for the Lakers under any circumstance). I rooted for the Magic and Pacers when Vic played for those teams. I rooted for Dallas when Yogi played there. I rooted for every team Noah Vonleh played for.....well just kidding about that one. Bottom line is people may think I'm weird, dont know how the NBA works, or have unrealistic expectations. That's fine. Its who I am and I'm comfortable with that. My 3 'teams' are Hoosier Basketball, Reds Baseball, and Bengals Football. Beyond that, I root for whatever or whoever I 'connect' with when watching them play. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 On 6/23/2023 at 9:40 PM, FKIM01 said: You are out of your mind. Pacers were going to lose George in free agency. Exactly WHAT do you think management could have gotten for George after he demanded a trade?!!! It was horrible for the organization. Should have never got there but it was reported over a year in advance he was unhappy and they should have moved him long before they did to get a better return. Heck even if they did the Pelicans type trade with the Lakers they still could have ended up with Ingram, the #2 pick that ended up being Ball (but could have been Tatum at very least Fox because I wouldn’t have taken Ball who wouldn’t have been happy here), probably plus more. Ingram alone would have been a much better choice than anything they’ve gotten…but whatever…we probably would have messed up and still taken Leaf with the #2 pick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, TheWatShot said: Indiana fans (and Purdue fans, for that matter) have this weird fascination and bond with players who come from Indiana. I've never quite figured out why, or why it seems to be exclusive to this state. I would say in Indiana basketball fans follow the sport across the board more than any other state. So they know the high school kids well and want to see the college teams take them and in turn the same with college to pros. Most professional sports fans don’t typically follow college basketball at all and or in large cities (which typically aren’t college towns and those people are made up of people that have moved there from all over the country/thus no loyalty). Fans of the Pacers are statewide, typically have lived here their whole life and grown up following college and pro teams. That said most hardcore Pacer fans I know hate IU fans because they talk incessantly about IU and always push their players. Edited June 25, 2023 by dgambill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 16 minutes ago, dgambill said: It was horrible for the organization. Should have never got there but it was reported over a year in advance he was unhappy and they should have moved him long before they did to get a better return. Heck even if they did the Pelicans type trade with the Lakers they still could have ended up with Ingram, the #2 pick that ended up being Ball (but could have been Tatum at very least Fox because I wouldn’t have taken Ball who wouldn’t have been happy here), probably plus more. Ingram alone would have been a much better choice than anything they’ve gotten…but whatever…we probably would have messed up and still taken Leaf with the #2 pick. You think PG could have gotten the same haul as AD? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 9 hours ago, 5fouls said: Frankly, what some think is weird, I find perfectly natural. Not ashamed at all to say i will be rooting for the Warriors next season (sorry JHS, I wamt you to do well, but I cant root for the Lakers under any circumstance). I rooted for the Magic and Pacers when Vic played for those teams. I rooted for Dallas when Yogi played there. I rooted for every team Noah Vonleh played for.....well just kidding about that one. Bottom line is people may think I'm weird, dont know how the NBA works, or have unrealistic expectations. That's fine. Its who I am and I'm comfortable with that. My 3 'teams' are Hoosier Basketball, Reds Baseball, and Bengals Football. Beyond that, I root for whatever or whoever I 'connect' with when watching them play. I mean all that is fine. But the Pacers weren't any level of negligent/in the wrong/disrespectful/whatever for not drafting TJD. It didnt rub any salt in the wound that the Pacers took Wong. Regardless of how you feel about the organization, or whatever, that draft pick decision isn't a drop in the bucket in terms of importance in "continuing the Pacers rebuild". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: You think PG could have gotten the same haul as AD? You don’t think Ingram and #2 was available? Even if it wasn’t multiple picks and trade swaps yes at minimum those two were reportedly on the table. Lakers we’re trying to lure in Lebron and coveted PG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 I think it's preposterous to be upset about getting two All Stars for PG. It was a great trade. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, dgambill said: You don’t think Ingram and #2 was available? Even if it wasn’t multiple picks and trade swaps yes at minimum those two were reportedly on the table. Lakers we’re trying to lure in Lebron and coveted PG. I mean, the Pacers were quite a bit better after the trade, and absolutely one of the most exciting teams. VO+Sabonis first year with the Pacers was a great year to be a Pacers fan. The next year..3rd best team in the East when VO went down, after taking CLE and LeWhine to 7 games. Whatever move you were hypothetically wanting them to make wasn't going to affect winning the way Sabonis+VO did. Edited June 25, 2023 by btownqb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 Just now, btownqb said: I mean, the Pacers were quite a bit better after the trade, and absolutely one of the most exciting. Literally the 3rd best team in the East when VO went down, after taking CLE and LeWhine to 7 games. Whatever move you were hypothetically wanting them to make wasn't going to affect winning the way Sabonis+VO did. And then yeah, VO got hurt... Pacers haven’t won a playoff game in 5 years, and haven’t won a playoff series in 10….the numbers just don’t support that imo. You have your opinion but I just can’t bring myself to say the Pacers have done a good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, dgambill said: Pacers haven’t won a playoff game in 5 years, and haven’t won a playoff series in 10….the numbers just don’t support that imo. You have your opinion but I just can’t bring myself to say the Pacers have done a good job. They can't control VOs quad injury. Have been in rebuild since that happened. Plus whatever happened to TJ Warren lol And you can be frustrated with them and still recongize that was a solid trade for the Pacers. I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive. Edited June 25, 2023 by btownqb 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, btownqb said: They can't control VOs quad injury. Have been in rebuild since that happened. Plus whatever happened to TJ Warren lol And you can be frustrated with them and still recongize that was a solid trade for the Pacers. I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive. I think they could have gotten better return. But I get it. Some people are happy fielding a playoff team. Imo in the NBA you need star power…and that is even different than all star power. We haven’t identified any all-nba talent and sure you can say that about most teams but most teams spend years tanking to find their star. We are trying to immediately reload and fight for playoff contention. I hate this plan. It’s like trying to build a SB team without a franchise qb. Is it theoretically possible…I guess…but it is almost certainly the more difficult way to build a franchise…for a city and team that can’t recruit superstar free agents…I don’t see the plan as viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 1 hour ago, dgambill said: I would say in Indiana basketball fans follow the sport across the board more than any other state. So they know the high school kids well and want to see the college teams take them and in turn the same with college to pros. Most professional sports fans don’t typically follow college basketball at all and or in large cities (which typically aren’t college towns and those people are made up of people that have moved there from all over the country/thus no loyalty). Fans of the Pacers are statewide, typically have lived here their whole life and grown up following college and pro teams. That said most hardcore Pacer fans I know hate IU fans because they talk incessantly about IU and always push their players. Indiana fans follow and know the sport as well or better than any. IMO, they want to see well played, winning basketball, regardless of where the players are from. The last time we won a championship we had one player in the top of the rotation from Indiana. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 Go Pacers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 5 hours ago, btownqb said: They can't control VOs quad injury. Have been in rebuild since that happened. Plus whatever happened to TJ Warren lol And you can be frustrated with them and still recongize that was a solid trade for the Pacers. I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive. VOs injury and Nate McMillan being a terrible playoff coach are to blame for not winning a playoff game in 5 years, two of which have been a pretty effective rebuild. Ten years on a playoff series can blame the PG injury. Small market teams don’t have much margin for error, that’s just reality. Pacers put together a championship level team a decade ago, flipped the key piece of that for two All Stars which if not for injuries would have been one of the better duos in the East. Didn’t work out that way, so they flipped it for another young star. The PG trade resulted in now three different All Star players. Are we really going to argue we could have drafted better than that? I just don’t see it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 5 hours ago, dgambill said: I think they could have gotten better return. But I get it. Some people are happy fielding a playoff team. Imo in the NBA you need star power…and that is even different than all star power. We haven’t identified any all-nba talent and sure you can say that about most teams but most teams spend years tanking to find their star. We are trying to immediately reload and fight for playoff contention. I hate this plan. It’s like trying to build a SB team without a franchise qb. Is it theoretically possible…I guess…but it is almost certainly the more difficult way to build a franchise…for a city and team that can’t recruit superstar free agents…I don’t see the plan as viable. Serious question… what small market has put together three different versions of a championship caliber team since the 90s? It hasn’t worked out which stinks, but compare us to some other small markets and I’ll take us all day long. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 3 hours ago, KoB2011 said: Serious question… what small market has put together three different versions of a championship caliber team since the 90s? It hasn’t worked out which stinks, but compare us to some other small markets and I’ll take us all day long. I’m not here to hate on the Pacers…our whole history…I love the Pacers. I just think the reload instead of total rebuild was short sighted…and now when we bottomed out we still didn’t just tank 100% the last few years…we’ve constantly had our eye on making the play in. I want to see us committed to it. That’s all I’ve been saying. Look the Central is full of small market teams…and they’ve all had significant success….they’ve all won it all except us. Chicago, Detroit, Milwaulkie, and Cleveland have all had more success than us. I’d just like to see our owner allow the GM to tear it all down…stock pile picks from our valuable pieces, and invest in high draft picks. That’s all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, dgambill said: I’m not here to hate on the Pacers... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 7 minutes ago, dgambill said: I’m not here to hate on the Pacers…our whole history…I love the Pacers. I just think the reload instead of total rebuild was short sighted…and now when we bottomed out we still didn’t just tank 100% the last few years…we’ve constantly had our eye on making the play in. I want to see us committed to it. That’s all I’ve been saying. Look the Central is full of small market teams…and they’ve all had significant success….they’ve all won it all except us. Chicago, Detroit, Milwaulkie, and Cleveland have all had more success than us. I’d just like to see our owner allow the GM to tear it all down…stock pile picks from our valuable pieces, and invest in high draft picks. That’s all. I mean, I just am not sure I could see this much differently. Bulls = decidedly not a small market team. Cleveland = lucked into drafting a top 3 player ever and still didn’t win it with him, only won it because he decided to come back home. Detroit = Pacers have had like three teams better than the 04 Pistons that just didn’t happen to win it. Milwaukee = Giannis was a mid first rounder. They never fully tanked and are probably the most similar to us of the other teams in the division. Over the past 30-40 year we have been the better franchise, they just struck gold in recent years. None of those teams that you think we should strive to be like have ever really had success embracing the tank. None of their titles came from tanking successfully. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, rico said: That’s too funny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, dgambill said: I’m not here to hate on the Pacers…our whole history…I love the Pacers. I just think the reload instead of total rebuild was short sighted…and now when we bottomed out we still didn’t just tank 100% the last few years…we’ve constantly had our eye on making the play in. I want to see us committed to it. That’s all I’ve been saying. Look the Central is full of small market teams…and they’ve all had significant success….they’ve all won it all except us. Chicago, Detroit, Milwaulkie, and Cleveland have all had more success than us. I’d just like to see our owner allow the GM to tear it all down…stock pile picks from our valuable pieces, and invest in high draft picks. That’s all. I disagree about last year especially the last 25 games of the year. After Haliburton injury and they went 1-11 we pretty much tanked the rest of the season. I am pretty sure that both Haliburton and Turner could have played late last year but they both set out the last 12 games of the season. Edited June 26, 2023 by IU Scott 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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