Allegations of past inappropriate conduct regarding IU basketball doctor

[Parakeet Jones]

https://www.wdrb.com/sports/former-indiana-basketball-player-accuses-team-doctor-of-inappropriate-physical-exams/article_940c5a78-7085-11ef-88c3-ff17791e16a2.html

 

[Seeking6]

I'm going to be real, real, real careful on this one. As I've always been I let the facts come out first and decide later. Everyone deserves due process. With that said....25-26 years later?? We want to be respectful but my encounters with the accused and knowledge of him have been nothing but first class.

 

[FKIM01]

Having been subjected to a prostate exam, I can tell you I was tempted to classify it as inappropriate. 😬

Seriously...I too struggle with accusations coming out more than 20 years later.

[13th&Jackson]

9 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

Having been subjected to a prostate exam, I can tell you I was tempted to classify it as inappropriate. 😬

Seriously...I too struggle with accusations coming out more than 20 years later.

Prostate exams are typically recommended after age 50 and sometimes after 40 for high risk patients. The burden will be on the doctor to prove that this is appropriate and common practice for young athletes. Maybe it is. If it’s common, then no issue. 

As far as the delay in reporting, this individual would now be at an age where prostate exams are recommended. May be as simple as new awareness. 

[Artesian_86]

4 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Prostate exams are typically recommended after age 50 and sometimes after 40 for high risk patients. The burden will be on the doctor to prove that this is appropriate and common practice for young athletes. Maybe it is. If it’s common, then no issue. 

As far as the delay in reporting, this individual would now be at an age where prostate exams are recommended. May be as simple as new awareness. 

I'm sorry, I just can't get past the fact of someone/anyone actually enjoying doing that type of exam on an athlete where there's been sweat and,.... you know......🟤

.....but, then again, there are some creepy and strange people out there.

[cthomas]

Admittedly I'm old, but the digital prostate exam has been part of my annual physical for a long time. Even if you accept it as medically necessary, it's hard not to feel somewhat violated. That said, I don't think I would be making public allegations several decades after the fact.

[Drroogh]

Yes Prostrate exams are a violation of your personal space, but probably worse would be Pap smear! However, could it be the old “turn your head and cough” hernia exam? 

[IUFLA]

Back when I was getting flight physicals, it was mandatory that you had to get the finger wave starting at 30 years old. If your blood work showed elevated levels of certain things, they made you get a prostate exam at any age...

[HoosierFaithful]

This is JMO, but the time it takes someone to report something like this has absolutely no bearing on my belief (or lack thereof) of its legitimacy.  For something so violating, can you blame someone for wanting to brush it under the rug?  Look at the young women who testified against the gymnastics doctor - you can see the pain it caused them to rehash those memories and, let's not forget, tell the entire world about it.  There seem to be plentiful reasons to me to not report something like this immediately or even at all.

[Drroogh]

I only hope that part of the review includes the standard practices of 25 years ago instead of just making judgments based on today’s standards!

[Stlboiler23]

1 hour ago, HoosierFaithful said:

This is JMO, but the time it takes someone to report something like this has absolutely no bearing on my belief (or lack thereof) of its legitimacy.  For something so violating, can you blame someone for wanting to brush it under the rug?  Look at the young women who testified against the gymnastics doctor - you can see the pain it caused them to rehash those memories and, let's not forget, tell the entire world about it.  There seem to be plentiful reasons to me to not report something like this immediately or even at all.

You hit the nail on the head here. The people who claim the victims (not assuming this situation is a victim yet) should’ve spoken up sooner IMO have never been through events like that.  There are a myriad of reasons why people would wait a year, two years, or even 25 years whether it be fear of retaliation, intimidation, how their friends and family will react, depression/anxiety, and any other number of reasons. The victims should be able to come forward when and how it’s best for them. 

[5fouls]

I can only go off of personal experience.  I did not play college sports.  My high school sports physical did require the 'turn your head and cough' exam.  But, I never received any prostate exam that went beyond that until I was over 50.

The difficult thing about this type of situation is that what makes one person uncomfortable may not make the next 9 patients that get the exact same treatment uncomfortable at all.

Add in the fact that society has changed in the last 25 years and things that were commonly accepted back then would not be viewed the same as they are today.

More facts are required before judgement is passed either way.  The main question I have is who decided an 18-22 year old athlete required a rectal exam?  That type of exam would seem to be unnecessary given the demographic.  Was it University policy?  That's the main answer I would be seeking before I pass any judgement here.

[IUFLA]

2 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I can only go off of personal experience.  I did not play college sports.  My high school sports physical did require the 'turn your head and cough' exam.  But, I never received any prostate exam that went beyond that until I was over 50.

The difficult thing about this type of situation is that what makes one person uncomfortable may not make the next 9 patients that get the exact same treatment uncomfortable at all.

Add in the fact that society has changed in the last 25 years and things that were commonly accepted back then would not be viewed the same as they are today.

More facts are required before judgement is passed either way.  The main question I have is who decided an 18-22 year old athlete required a rectal exam?  That type of exam would seem to be unnecessary given the demographic.  Was it University policy?  That's the main answer I would be seeking before I pass any judgement here.

The point I poorly made in my post above was that in the USAF elevated levels of PSA (prostate-specific antigen...I looked it up) would get men on flying status a prostate exam regardless of age...

[Parakeet Jones]

Whatever the truth is here, I find the whole thing sad. If this is true, that is sad. If it’s not and an innocent person is having his name drug through the mud, that’s sad too. I also feel bad for the grandson on the football team. It has to be tough to be there while your grandfather is being brought up in this. None of this involves him. 

[5fouls]

4 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

The point I poorly made in my post above was that in the USAF elevated levels of PSA (prostate-specific antigen...I looked it up) would get men on flying status a prostate exam regardless of age...

Understood.  But that's the military.  To my point, if it was University policy, then you have to look at this differently than if the Dr. conducted the test on his own. In the latter, it's fair to ask why without immediately assuming guilt.  

[HoosierFaithful]

54 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

You hit the nail on the head here. The people who claim the victims (not assuming this situation is a victim yet) should’ve spoken up sooner IMO have never been through events like that.  There are a myriad of reasons why people would wait a year, two years, or even 25 years whether it be fear of retaliation, intimidation, how their friends and family will react, depression/anxiety, and any other number of reasons. The victims should be able to come forward when and how it’s best for them. 

Absolutely.  And this isn’t to say I believe the allegations - as others have said, certainly more investigation is warranted and more evidence would be needed.  But to discount allegations because they didn’t come up timely enough is to discount a clear record of verifiable and true claims that have come up long after the fact IMO

[IUFLA]

8 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Understood.  But that's the military.  To my point, if it was University policy, then you have to look at this differently than if the Dr. conducted the test on his own. In the latter, it's fair to ask why without immediately assuming guilt.  

I'm pretty sure even in the 90s D1 athletes went through rigorous medical testing before being cleared to play. I remember reading a story about Andrae Patterson being tested for lung capacity and it showing that for his physical size, his lungs were deficient at processing air...

I would imagine blood work is pretty standard fair for D1 athletes...if a Dr saw increased levels of PSA I'd think he'd probably do some follow up...

[5fouls]

4 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

 

I would imagine blood work is pretty standard fair for D1 athletes...if a Dr saw increased levels of PSA I'd think he'd probably do some follow up...

Which would/should have been thoroughly explained to the player why a certain test was being done.  That's something we need to better understand.

[FKIM01]

3 hours ago, HoosierFaithful said:

This is JMO, but the time it takes someone to report something like this has absolutely no bearing on my belief (or lack thereof) of its legitimacy.  For something so violating, can you blame someone for wanting to brush it under the rug?  Look at the young women who testified against the gymnastics doctor - you can see the pain it caused them to rehash those memories and, let's not forget, tell the entire world about it.  There seem to be plentiful reasons to me to not report something like this immediately or even at all.

Fair, but I'll have to disagree.

Just as it's reasonable to ask the doctor why the exam was necessary after it's confirmed it was actually done, it's equally fair to ask the accuser why he or she didn't speak sooner.  I get that there are a lot of reasons to delay speaking up but there are plenty of examples to prove they are not all good reasons.  History is littered with belated accusations that only cropped up after a person became wealthy, famous, politically powerful, etc.  Even changing public attitudes to certain behaviors can come into play for better or for worse.

I'm not dismissing the accusation because of the time lapse, but I think it's fair to factor it and inquire about the reason(s) for delaying reporting the incident.  If we don't ask that kind of question, it's possible to encourage accusations of long ago bad behavior that are nothing more than retaliatory and/or seeking financial or some other form of gain.  That's my JMO.

Edited September 12 by FKIM01

[IUFLA]

5 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Which would/should have been thoroughly explained to the player why a certain test was being done.  That's something we need to better understand.

Agree...gotta wonder if the player's medical records from that time period are still around...

And I'll admit that I listen much more closely to what my doc is telling me now than I did at 18-22...

[5fouls]

24 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

Absolutely.  And this isn’t to say I believe the allegations - as others have said, certainly more investigation is warranted and more evidence would be needed.  But to discount allegations because they didn’t come up timely enough is to discount a clear record of verifiable and true claims that have come up long after the fact IMO

What we can't lose sight of is the fact the time element, whether we want to admit it or not, changes perspective.  I grew up in the 1970's.  I was spanked by my parents, even occasionally received a belt. Never bad enough to leave bruises or anything, but I was, on occasion, disciplined that way.

My dad was the kindest, most honorable man I ever knew.  He disciplined us in that manner because, at least in 1970's  Southern Indiana, that was an accepted form of discipline.   Today, a parent would get charged with abuse for even thinking about using a belt on a child.  

Different times, different perspectives. 

And, as I mentioned in earlier post, different people, different perspectives.  What seems to be inappropriate to one person may be perfectly natural to the next 49 people placed in the exact same scenario.

Both of those things need to be considered when dealing with something that happened 25 years ago.

Edited September 12 by 5fouls

[Indykev]

Dr.Bamba was my Doctor on a couple of occasions. 25 years later, 100's of players Dr.Bamba treated as team Dr. no one else has an issue or need a payday?

[Tom White]

Does no one else think it is odd that, besides the time span, this unnamed player took this to a KENTUCKY TV station?

[13th&Jackson]

9 minutes ago, Tom White said:

Does no one else think it is odd that, besides the time span, this unnamed player took this to a KENTUCKY TV station?

No evidence he did. Article says he recently notified the university. IU issued a media statement yesterday. 

[OGIUAndy]

2 hours ago, 5fouls said:

What we can't lose sight of is the fact the time element, whether we want to admit it or not, changes perspective.  I grew up in the 1970's.  I was spanked by my parents, even occasionally received a belt. Never bad enough to leave bruises or anything, but I was, on occasion, disciplined that way.

My dad was the kindest, most honorable man I ever knew.  He disciplined us in that manner because, at least in 1970's  Southern Indiana, that was an accepted form of discipline.   Today, a parent would get charged with abuse for even thinking about using a belt on a child.  

Different times, different perspectives. 

And, as I mentioned in earlier post, different people, different perspectives.  What seems to be inappropriate to one person may be perfectly natural to the next 49 people placed in the exact same scenario.

Both of those things need to be considered when dealing with something that happened 25 years ago.

I am no doctor, but I don't think back in the day they were doing rectal/prostate exams to teenagers and guys in their early 20s. If anything, that seems like something they would do to younger people now, but definitely not back then. So it seems like if this is true, it would be a bit unusual to say the least.