USMNT

[dgambill]

I shouldn’t be so harsh…winning in soccer is hard…even when you have superior talent…England hasn’t won anything in like 60 years so I shouldn’t be too hard on the US…but man losing to such inferior teams here in Central and South America…just embarrassing.

[dgambill]

8 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

But the disconnect is we have more top level players in Europe than ever. Our national team is clearly under performing - but these are week in / week out starters across the top 5 leagues. That has never been our reality. 

But none of those players can really create anything on their own. We don’t have a single guy the other team has been o mark or be scared of. And like I said our best guys weren’t brought up in the states or came through any of the academies you speak of. Our best hope is having dual national guys not be able to make their national teams and come play for us. And how many of those guys are on top top super teams…not many. Second tier European teams sure…but again not elite teams. Heck they were just complaining that our guys in Europe aren’t getting enough minutes to stay sharp…it cuts both ways…good enough to be on a team but not to play meaningful minutes or be a focal point or leader on a team.

Edited July 2 by dgambill

[hoopsta007]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I shouldn’t be so harsh…winning in soccer is hard…even when you have superior talent…England hasn’t won anything in like 60 years so I shouldn’t be too hard on the US…but man losing to such inferior teams here in Central and South America…just embarrassing.

It’s not that we got beaten but completely outclassed.  Uruguay controlled the game and there were very few opportunities to even make a play.  I get the whole situational games but feel like a more aggressive approach early would have been better.

[hoopsta007]

And strictly for discussion (I’ll admit to not knowing options outside of former players) where do you guys think we go for coaching assuming a change is made?

[dgambill]

6 hours ago, hoopsta007 said:

It’s not that we got beaten but completely outclassed.  Uruguay controlled the game and there were very few opportunities to even make a play.  I get the whole situational games but feel like a more aggressive approach early would have been better.

I thought we tried to be aggressive early…came out with plenty of fight…but we were outclassed…and the ref didn’t help our cause any. The issue was with the exception of about 2-3 minutes in each half of game 1 and game 2 we did not. We might be better than 10 years ago…but we aren’t better for 90 mins…and that’s what it takes…concentration and creativity…and I don’t see that grit…and that’s part of what I mean about todays player…on our side I don’t see a lot of that…we have miles to go skill wise before you can afford to get beat grit wise.

[ledies22]

10 hours ago, hoopsta007 said:

And strictly for discussion (I’ll admit to not knowing options outside of former players) where do you guys think we go for coaching assuming a change is made?

I wont get into the other part of the discussion because I completely disagree with you and dgambill.

To answer the question... Uruguay's current coach we pursued after the World Cup. I think we ended up backing off because he was rumored for the Leeds job or something like that.

Also, after the World Cup Jesse Marsch was on that list. If you dont know he went to coach Canada's national team after he didnt get the US job. He was born in Wisconsin. He made it out of the group stage with the likes of Chile and Argentina.

I think you start with those two first. 

[HoosierFaithful]

11 hours ago, dgambill said:

But none of those players can really create anything on their own. We don’t have a single guy the other team has been o mark or be scared of. And like I said our best guys weren’t brought up in the states or came through any of the academies you speak of. Our best hope is having dual national guys not be able to make their national teams and come play for us. And how many of those guys are on top top super teams…not many. Second tier European teams sure…but again not elite teams. Heck they were just complaining that our guys in Europe aren’t getting enough minutes to stay sharp…it cuts both ways…good enough to be on a team but not to play meaningful minutes or be a focal point or leader on a team.

Yunus Musah - AC Milan

Tim Weah - Juventus

Weston McKennie - Juventus

Christian Pulisic - AC Milan

and I'm of the mindset any EPL team is a top tier team, to be honest, so add in Ream, Richards, Robinson, Adams, Reyna to that list.  The majority of our roster are established at teams in top 5 leagues.

I get that we aren't competitive enough right now - no complaint there from me.  I am disagreeing that it's a talent or pipeline problem.  I don't care if they're dual nats or not, every country utilizes dual nats.  Look at Jamaica.  

Our talent pipeline is not the problem.  At least at some level, our coaching is.  

[HoosierFaithful]

11 hours ago, hoopsta007 said:

It’s not that we got beaten but completely outclassed.  Uruguay controlled the game and there were very few opportunities to even make a play.  I get the whole situational games but feel like a more aggressive approach early would have been better.

Controlled the game?  We must have watched different games.  I thought we were better in the 1H, even in the 2H until the goal, and then second best the rest of the way.  

Gotta score to win the game, but acting like Uruguay walked us off the park isn't even close to true IMO

[ledies22]

53 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

Yunus Musah - AC Milan

Tim Weah - Juventus

Weston McKennie - Juventus

Christian Pulisic - AC Milan

and I'm of the mindset any EPL team is a top tier team, to be honest, so add in Ream, Richards, Robinson, Adams, Reyna to that list.  The majority of our roster are established at teams in top 5 leagues.

I get that we aren't competitive enough right now - no complaint there from me.  I am disagreeing that it's a talent or pipeline problem.  I don't care if they're dual nats or not, every country utilizes dual nats.  Look at Jamaica.  

Our talent pipeline is not the problem.  At least at some level, our coaching is.  

i didnt want to get into it with them. They obviously are seeing/watching completely different things than me. 

Dest, Reyna, Mussah, Puli can all create on their own. USA soccer has gotten better by leaps and bounds (talent wise, not results wise). The what used to be insurmountable gap between USA and say Germany was so large it was never a thought. Now the gap is closing a bit. The biggest issue is the popularity in soccer. what it was and what it is. MLS is growing a long with the the fandom. Exposure. Soccer has always been an afterthought. It is not so much anymore.

"Soccer's popularity in the United States has been growing since the 1960s, and it's the fourth most popular sport in the country, behind American football, baseball, and basketball. In 2023, over 14 million people played outdoor soccer in the US, which was an 8% increase from the previous year. Major League Soccer (MLS), the main professional soccer league in North America, has also seen a rise in popularity, with attendance increasing for eight years in a row. 

Changes have been made in the youth acadamy structure. Youth and overnight are not synonymous. It will take time to build. We will see results... depending on your age.... im 35. so i will

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/mls-elite-youth-development-platform

We are being compared to countries that have a 50 year head start. 

 

Edited July 2 by ledies22

[ledies22]

2 hours ago, ledies22 said:

I wont get into the other part of the discussion because I completely disagree with you and dgambill.

To answer the question... Uruguay's current coach we pursued after the World Cup. I think we ended up backing off because he was rumored for the Leeds job or something like that.

Also, after the World Cup Jesse Marsch was on that list. If you dont know he went to coach Canada's national team after he didnt get the US job. He was born in Wisconsin. He made it out of the group stage with the likes of Chile and Argentina.

I think you start with those two first. 

@hoopsta007 I should say, those are probably your realistic-ish options currently. Maybe we can shoot for the stars and land on the moon. $$$$ talks and if US soccer is ready to pony up. We could get someone else.

[HoosierFaithful]

https://sports.yahoo.com/usmnt-soccer-development-academy-mls-world-cup-150011102.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9zb2NhbHNvY2Nlci5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADtl1pr02ixxj1xkKZpqxnwxmbbgoMRN1MX0I19DeTa1ZCCAJdbLARWnuxK86V9kURz3gVW_fdFShgjwdcKicfZQrMhtkm038yXYHIPP1JUOu82lDXF9xgA_DLTRxwCf4S2zLFFzU_KmY5wGqukxfOffJY_yjXmqhCZauqVePOOK

Quote

The DA, as it became known, is widely cited as the collective birthplace of this USMNT. “It's not a coincidence,” head coach Gregg Berhalter says, “that all of a sudden we have elite players around the world.” Academy investment, especially by Major League Soccer clubs, is “one of the reasons why we are where we are,” Berhalter said the morning after clinching World Cup qualification.

And it is widely credited with reforming a “broken” system that, for decades, impeded America’s rise in men’s soccer. The reformed landscape, says Alecko Eskandarian, a former player and current development director at MLS, is “night and day compared to where we were 10, 20 years ago.”

 

[hoopsta007]

4 hours ago, HoosierFaithful said:

Controlled the game?  We must have watched different games.  I thought we were better in the 1H, even in the 2H until the goal, and then second best the rest of the way.  

Gotta score to win the game, but acting like Uruguay walked us off the park isn't even close to true IMO

Yeah, frustration last night got best of me and “controlling the game” wasn’t the best way to phrase it.  I just feel like we should be much further along than where we are and wasted a golden opportunity.  The best way to grow soccer in the US is to have more meaningful games to watch and we are sitting at home in an international tournament we are hosting.

[HoosierFaithful]

fair enough point.  

We played well enough but never looked threatening - which I think is perhaps the point you were making.  Berhalter truly is the American Southgate.

[dgambill]

9 hours ago, HoosierFaithful said:

Yunus Musah - AC Milan

Tim Weah - Juventus

Weston McKennie - Juventus

Christian Pulisic - AC Milan

and I'm of the mindset any EPL team is a top tier team, to be honest, so add in Ream, Richards, Robinson, Adams, Reyna to that list.  The majority of our roster are established at teams in top 5 leagues.

I get that we aren't competitive enough right now - no complaint there from me.  I am disagreeing that it's a talent or pipeline problem.  I don't care if they're dual nats or not, every country utilizes dual nats.  Look at Jamaica.  

Our talent pipeline is not the problem.  At least at some level, our coaching is.  

But those guys don’t play significant roles on those teams. Outside of Pulisic (who only does it in spurts) we don’t have any creativity. What I meant by dual citizens is they didn’t grow up in our system…so you can’t use them as examples US soccer is improving…just we are piggy backing off the success of the rest of the world…we aren’t exactly creating our “own” stars. We didn’t do anything to really develop them and of course we will take them but you can’t rely on that to be our future. Agree on the coaching…seemed way too buddy buddy and not enough discipline…too many mental break downs. Just my opinion.

It isn’t all doom and gloom…I get it these things go in cycles but this team is super soft…none of the grit and passion of some of our past teams…despite having perhaps more talent than any before it. That just doesn’t win a lot…and when we still lack top end talent…just sharp precision skills like the best teams have…grit is what can keep you in those matches…we aren’t good enough to think we are going to out skill the best…but heck..now we can’t even beat mediocre Panama. Its not a good look.

[dgambill]

10 hours ago, HoosierFaithful said:

Controlled the game?  We must have watched different games.  I thought we were better in the 1H, even in the 2H until the goal, and then second best the rest of the way.  

Gotta score to win the game, but acting like Uruguay walked us off the park isn't even close to true IMO

It was a much better performance but we really didn’t threaten Uruguay at all. Only a couple buildups. Defense was mostly pretty solid I won’t complain there but we were outshot, out created, and out possessed…pretty much par for the course for American soccer against top competition. The real problem was of course Panama and yes even the Bolivia showing was a warning sign of what was to come…it wasn’t a very sharp performance. 

Hope we can find someone that can create more opportunities and bring more intensity to our play.  Staying sharp for 90 mins is a real task but we need someone that will keep these guys locked in.

[dgambill]

5 hours ago, hoopsta007 said:

Yeah, frustration last night got best of me and “controlling the game” wasn’t the best way to phrase it.  I just feel like we should be much further along than where we are and wasted a golden opportunity.  The best way to grow soccer in the US is to have more meaningful games to watch and we are sitting at home in an international tournament we are hosting.

Worst part is there is no more meaningful matches to build on for Workd Cup in a couple years…you want to be improving…peaking…we are anything but that.

[ledies22]

11 hours ago, dgambill said:

But those guys don’t play significant roles on those teams. Outside of Pulisic (who only does it in spurts) we don’t have any creativity. What I meant by dual citizens is they didn’t grow up in our system…so you can’t use them as examples US soccer is improving…just we are piggy backing off the success of the rest of the world…we aren’t exactly creating our “own” stars. We didn’t do anything to really develop them and of course we will take them but you can’t rely on that to be our future. Agree on the coaching…seemed way too buddy buddy and not enough discipline…too many mental break downs. Just my opinion.

It isn’t all doom and gloom…I get it these things go in cycles but this team is super soft…none of the grit and passion of some of our past teams…despite having perhaps more talent than any before it. That just doesn’t win a lot…and when we still lack top end talent…just sharp precision skills like the best teams have…grit is what can keep you in those matches…we aren’t good enough to think we are going to out skill the best…but heck..now we can’t even beat mediocre Panama. Its not a good look.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/articles/cl5kl8029d2o#:~:text=Cavan Sullivan is 14-years,his debut before 29 July.

Paxton Aaronson

Gianluca Busio

[ledies22]

Klopp maybe dark horse here 👀

[ledies22]

USMNT Olympic roster

[dgambill]

On 7/3/2024 at 9:47 AM, ledies22 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/articles/cl5kl8029d2o#:~:text=Cavan Sullivan is 14-years,his debut before 29 July.

Paxton Aaronson

Gianluca Busio

We’ve had the next great hopes before….ill continue to follow them and see if they develop…hopefully someday we land ourselves a true superstar 9. It’s pretty incredible that on top of our lack of creativity and ability to one touch and pass accurately and set up scoring chances but we also don’t have a striker that can physically hold up the ball and deliver, can rise above consistently to deliver headers, and power past and strike with authority accurately. 166 million men in America and we can’t find one. Not even one superior specimen…probably not a singular top 15 country in rankings is without one…and some have multiple…and many from tiny countries with much less money in the sport. I’ll keep hoping for one…but I want hold my breath.

[ledies22]

10 hours ago, dgambill said:

We’ve had the next great hopes before….ill continue to follow them and see if they develop…hopefully someday we land ourselves a true superstar 9. 1) It’s pretty incredible that on top of our lack of creativity and ability to one touch and pass accurately and set up scoring chances 2) but we also don’t have a striker that can physically hold up the ball and deliver, can rise above consistently to deliver headers, and power past and strike with authority accurately. 3)166 million men in America and we can’t find one. Not even one superior specimen…probably not a singular top 15 country in rankings is without one…and some have multiple…and many from tiny countries with much less money in the sport. I’ll keep hoping for one…but I want hold my breath.

I dont understand your doom and gloom on every thread other than all things Purdue. 

This will be my last response. I am not going to carry on a conversation that seems like neither party is budging on. And you will not change my mind that US soccer is getting better.

1) the skill that US soccer has currently is light years above and beyond of the past and recent past of US soccer. We have a semblance of possession ball as compared to the counter attacking style that we had to play because we couldnt string passes together and hold on to the ball. No one is saying that they are world beaters, because they are not. We are saying we are getting better. Our talent is getting better. Because our academy is getting better. The commitment, money, and system put in place, what 4 years ago, has drastically changed the outlook of US soccer. The popularity of soccer is growing. Kids want to play soccer, and more importantly want to focus on soccer.

"In 2023, over 14 million people played outdoor soccer, which was an 8% increase from 2022 and the first time participation surpassed 14 million since 2011"

"In 2022, 8% of Americans said soccer was their favorite sport, up from 2% in 2004. Among Americans aged 18–29, 11% named soccer their favorite sport, second only to football and basketball"

"Major League Soccer (MLS) and the National Women's Soccer League (NWSL) both set attendance records in 2022. In 2023, MLS continued to break records, with over 380,000 fans attending opening weekend and two clubs drawing more than 65,000 fans on the same day for the first time."

Soccer is no longer an after thought like it has been since the beginning. No one is saying there aren't problems/issues. 

2) US soccer has never had anything like you are describing. Altidore being the closest...? And he was only good in stretches. Balogun I believe is that guy for Stars and Stripes. Balogun is definitely better than anything previous. "But Dempsey"..... well, no. Not from what you're describing. 

3) Have you looked at the Fifa Rankings? US soccer sits at 11. There are several teams in the top 15 that dont have what you think makes up a "true #9". I think your argument is kind of describing the rankings. Obviously the better players you have the better your ranking, no? Also, the argument of USA has a population of..... is the most elementary thing I hear from non soccer fans.

[ledies22]

Gregg is out as Head Coach. Klopp is being listed everywhere. Does not seem as unlikely as one would have thought. 

[dgambill]

On 7/9/2024 at 8:54 AM, ledies22 said:

I dont understand your doom and gloom on every thread other than all things Purdue. 

This will be my last response. I am not going to carry on a conversation that seems like neither party is budging on. And you will not change my mind that US soccer is getting better.

1) the skill that US soccer has currently is light years above and beyond of the past and recent past of US soccer. We have a semblance of possession ball as compared to the counter attacking style that we had to play because we couldnt string passes together and hold on to the ball. No one is saying that they are world beaters, because they are not. We are saying we are getting better. Our talent is getting better. Because our academy is getting better. The commitment, money, and system put in place, what 4 years ago, has drastically changed the outlook of US soccer. The popularity of soccer is growing. Kids want to play soccer, and more importantly want to focus on soccer.

"In 2023, over 14 million people played outdoor soccer, which was an 8% increase from 2022 and the first time participation surpassed 14 million since 2011"

"In 2022, 8% of Americans said soccer was their favorite sport, up from 2% in 2004. Among Americans aged 18–29, 11% named soccer their favorite sport, second only to football and basketball"

"Major League Soccer (MLS) and the National Women's Soccer League (NWSL) both set attendance records in 2022. In 2023, MLS continued to break records, with over 380,000 fans attending opening weekend and two clubs drawing more than 65,000 fans on the same day for the first time."

Soccer is no longer an after thought like it has been since the beginning. No one is saying there aren't problems/issues. 

2) US soccer has never had anything like you are describing. Altidore being the closest...? And he was only good in stretches. Balogun I believe is that guy for Stars and Stripes. Balogun is definitely better than anything previous. "But Dempsey"..... well, no. Not from what you're describing. 

3) Have you looked at the Fifa Rankings? US soccer sits at 11. There are several teams in the top 15 that dont have what you think makes up a "true #9". I think your argument is kind of describing the rankings. Obviously the better players you have the better your ranking, no? Also, the argument of USA has a population of..... is the most elementary thing I hear from non soccer fans.

I don’t want to argue either…there is a lot that can be disputed there. I laugh at the FIFA rankings…we aren’t even in the top 8 in our hemisphere much less the world. The numbers thing may or may not mean anything because sheer numbers don’t necessarily correlate to success….we already know that. Our best athletes don’t play soccer….and those numbers don’t break down by men vs women. You think the growth is evenly distributed across gender?? I seriously doubt that as it’s been USA women’s soccer growing the game.

its not all doom and gloom…nor do I think I’m remotely a pessimist. I try to be objective as I can. I don’t see USA getting better. Sure perhaps skill wise we’ve improved but tactics, grit, and mental fortitude…we have taken a step back. Good thing is a lot of that is fixable with coaching and a better lineup. There’s hope…but even with hope soccer is very very hard to win it all. Often the most talented don’t win it all….perhaps we can go on a run.

So hopefully we can agree on that…while i am not very confident in 2026…down the road maybe…lots can happen.

[ledies22]

9 hours ago, dgambill said:

I don’t want to argue either…there is a lot that can be disputed there. I laugh at the FIFA rankings…we aren’t even in the top 8 in our hemisphere much less the world. The numbers thing may or may not mean anything because sheer numbers don’t necessarily correlate to success….we already know that. Our best athletes don’t play soccer….and those numbers don’t break down by men vs women. You think the growth is evenly distributed across gender?? I seriously doubt that as it’s been USA women’s soccer growing the game.

its not all doom and gloom…nor do I think I’m remotely a pessimist. I try to be objective as I can. I don’t see USA getting better. Sure perhaps skill wise we’ve improved but tactics, grit, and mental fortitude…we have taken a step back. Good thing is a lot of that is fixable with coaching and a better lineup. There’s hope…but even with hope soccer is very very hard to win it all. Often the most talented don’t win it all….perhaps we can go on a run.

So hopefully we can agree on that…while i am not very confident in 2026…down the road maybe…lots can happen.

fair

[ledies22]

Klopp turn USMNT down.

I think this is going to be one of those scenarios where you would have been good with the choice, if it was the initial choice, but everything gets your hopes up for the unreachable option(s), now it feels like a step below.