rico Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 10 hours ago, 5fouls said: Field goal attempts per 40 minutes. Malik is only a 'black-hole' to some of you because we are losing. 'Malik Reneau ('23-'24) - 15.5 T. Jackson-Davis ('22-'23) - 16.3 A. Henderson ('94-'95) - 17.4 K. Benson ('76-'77) - 16.7 And all of those squads were disappointments to me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 28 Author Report Share Posted January 28 34 minutes ago, rico said: And all of those squads were disappointments to me. Which is kind of my point. Place the blame on a disappointing season on something other than the player who is trying to put the team on their back. To me, and I know he is not perfect, but to pile on Malik for not passing the ball out of the post is ludicrous. A Mt. Rushmore of post players in Indiana basketball history had to do the same thing when they did not have the horses around them to do otherwise. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 13 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said: The narrative of the board was that we would not compete today. There were multiple posters that thought we would get beat by more than the spread that the betting books had. Yeah, we lost. Yeah, making the tournament looks like a long shot. I thought that this team showed a lot of fight today.. Not perfect by a long shot, but definitely they could hold their heads high for the effort they gave. Especially since our best player was not on the floor. It is so easy to pile on and beat down these guys and the coaches. It’s so easy to join the crowd. Would love if this forum might try to get behind these guys. i agree. i was one of those posters for sure. don't think you can be too disappointed or surprised with an 8 point loss at Illinois without Ware. the things that sucks is that i keep seeing people talk about apathy and have realized i'm getting to that point, but it kind of sinks in for me today. i'll never stop watching, so in that aspect i care, but realizing i'm to the point where i'm fairly happy that we at least played hard and beat the spread sucks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyhoosier29 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 12 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Which is kind of my point. Place the blame on a disappointing season on something other than the player who is trying to put the team on their back. To me, and I know he is not perfect, but to pile on Malik for not passing the ball out of the post is ludicrous. A Mt. Rushmore of post players in Indiana basketball history had to do the same thing when they did not have the horses around them to do otherwise. I don’t think MR subconsciously decides he isn’t passing it bc other guys can’t shoot. I think he just tucks his head and is determined to shoot and only passes it if he simply can’t get a shot off, which has also led to a high turnover rate for him. I get what you’re saying, but he’s essentially saying, the hell with being a good teammate and playing the right way, I’m just going to duck my head and shoot it every time and show everybody I’m not the problem. He’s likely not subconsciously saying that to himself either, but that’s what it looks like. My opinion MAY be slightly different IF I felt like he worked hard on the defensive end and rebounding the basketball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 12 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said: Piling on includes stating the obvious ad nauseum- how many times can it be expressed that we don’t shoot the 3 well, that the roster construction needs improvement? That the focus of the offense doesn’t fit today’s game? Getting behind the team would mean that posters would acknowledge the effort that these guys have shown. The improvement that guys like MR and TG have made. I shake my head when I read posts that suggest that there has been no player development. Finally, the pot shots at the coaching staff are unwarranted, imo. You starts the “It’s time to fire” thread, so not sure how to respond to you. The guy has been here 3 seasons . He is still coaching players from the previous regime. Improvement needs to happen, for sure. Three years and out is a recipe for disaster for the program. i understand your perspective, but will say if the same issues are relevant every game, isn't it okay to point it out every game? i mean we could all try to go with the idea that if we have said it before, don't ever say it again, but then wouldn't we all just stop posting? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 10 hours ago, 5fouls said: He's 2nd in Assist percentage on the team, right behind Galloway. His Assist % is more than twice as high than Cupps, who is a point guard. He does find players in scoring percentage. If he had Steve Alford to throw it out to, he would be even better. and let's also assume that the coaching staff is okay with what he's doing because he doesn't get pulled out for it or yelled at for it, right? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 1 hour ago, 5fouls said: You not agree with me? Me beat you senseless. Gold. Gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 nothing wrong with yesterday's effort. not a bad showing. just tough to accept that this is where our program is. also frustrating that we got one of the better performances of the year from X, but it still included a T (unwarranted, but nonetheless) and 2-7 from the FT line. also i mentioned in the game thread that Mtaco isn't as good as we need him to be. just to clarify, loved his rebounding and aggressive offense approach, but we needed him to be a consistent very good scorer for us to be good this year. he's not ready. would he be next year? i bet he would be, but i think he'll either enter the draft or transfer. hope i'm wrong on that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 3 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said: I don’t think MR subconsciously decides he isn’t passing it bc other guys can’t shoot. I think he just tucks his head and is determined to shoot and only passes it if he simply can’t get a shot off, which has also led to a high turnover rate for him. I get what you’re saying, but he’s essentially saying, the hell with being a good teammate and playing the right way, I’m just going to duck my head and shoot it every time and show everybody I’m not the problem. He’s likely not subconsciously saying that to himself either, but that’s what it looks like. My opinion MAY be slightly different IF I felt like he worked hard on the defensive end and rebounding the basketball. I actually think that Malik is doing what he’s told to do. If Woody doesn’t want the post bucket then he’ll not make Malik option a and b on most of the possessions. We always a) look to the post first, then b) look for a hockey assist to get the ball in the post, then c) look to drive and then d) look to shoot. And rarely ever do we get a good action off a cut for an open shot on the perimeter or a drive to the hoop unless it’s an in bound play. It’s not only Malik whose not getting the ball to open shooters/drivers. I don’t know where we rank in the B1G in assists, but I’m guessing we’re at the bottom. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 28 Author Report Share Posted January 28 (edited) 26 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said: I don’t think MR subconsciously decides he isn’t passing it bc other guys can’t shoot. I think he just tucks his head and is determined to shoot and only passes it if he simply can’t get a shot off, which has also led to a high turnover rate for him. I get what you’re saying, but he’s essentially saying, the hell with being a good teammate and playing the right way, I’m just going to duck my head and shoot it every time and show everybody I’m not the problem. He’s likely not subconsciously saying that to himself either, but that’s what it looks like. My opinion MAY be slightly different IF I felt like he worked hard on the defensive end and rebounding the basketball. But, as the stats I posted earlier show, faced with a similar team situation, All-Americans TJD, Henderson, and Benson shot it at even a higher rate. A Malik 2, no matter how it is achieved, is better than a clanked 3. I agree if Mgbako is wide open from behind the arc, Malik needs to pass it out. But, our offense isn't getting Mgbako open. And, that's not Malik's fault. He's got two guys guarding him. The problem is that the defense can both double Malik AND shadow Mgbako because there is always someone, or multiple someone's on the court that can't shoot a lick that can be left open. Edited January 28 by 5fouls 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 Just now, 5fouls said: But, as the stats I posted earlier show, faced with a similar team situation, All-Americans TJD, Henderson, and Benson shot it at even a higher rate. A Malik 2, no matter how it is achieved, is better than a clanked 3. I agree if Mgbako is wide open from behind the arc, malik needs to pass it out. But, or offense isn't getting Mgbako open. And, that's not Malik's fault. He's got two guys guarding him. the problem is that the defense can both double Malik AND shadow Mgbako because there is always someone, or multiple someone's on the court that can't shoot a lick that can be left open. Benson had Woodson Henderson had Evans TJD had JHS Malik has ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 5 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said: and let's also assume that the coaching staff is okay with what he's doing because he doesn't get pulled out for it or yelled at for it, right? He’s shooting 58%. Not like he’s forcing bad shots and not finishing 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy River Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 Of all the guys on this roster, the one that appears to hate losing the most, is Malik. You can see the pain and frustration on his face late in some of these games. He is surrounded by guys who can’t shoot, or won’t shoot, so he’s left to make something happen. Sometimes it works sometimes it’s really ugly. If you were on the floor and knew you were the first, second, and third best offensive options, what would you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 I like the progress from Malik on offense, he needs to keep growing in every area of his game for himself to achieve his goals and for the program. FWIW, he is 12th out of 15 Big Ten players in ORtg for guys with a usage of at least 24%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy River Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 3 hours ago, dgambill said: Because no one gets assist when they throw the ball to Reneau…you don’t get an assist when the guy pounds the ball 5-6 times on the floor backing and lowering his shoulder until he shoots. An assist is credited when the pass leads directly to a made shot or attempt. That works both ways. Malik also doesn’t get an assist when he kicks the ball out and Johnson air-balls a 3. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SawatchHoosier Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 59 minutes ago, rico said: Benson had Woodson Henderson had Evans TJD had JHS Malik has ? Caleb Love in another reality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 Malik is 60% through his sophomore season. It took TJD what, almost 4 years to become an accomplished post passer. For sure, MR is a work in progress. Last year he wasn’t called on to be the focus of the offense because we had two future NBA guys filling that role. Also can’t stress enough how Ware’s absence as well as X’s have impacted MR. Ware certainly draws defenders to take away the double and triple teams that MR has faced recently. We saw yesterday the impact a healthy X has. If we are fortunate enough to have MR for two more seasons I feel that he will continue to improve in the facets of the game that some have been critical of him. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 (edited) On 1/27/2024 at 5:27 PM, Indykev said: I hope when Woody watches this tape and he sees A.Leal on the court big mins., he thinks to himself, damn i suck as a recruiter. I dont get the college game of today. He better get his ass down to French Lick and recruit Deion Edwards.. You want a shooter? We got one right down the road. He didn't know. His mother hollard at him while he was at the charity stripe. She said Hit this! Dude just wants to win. I'd give him a scholarship yesterday. I also agree with you on Leal. Indiana Basketball is at its best with Hoosiers specially southern Hoosiers. It makes makes me sick purdue is beating our ass with indiana boys. Edited January 29 by mrflynn03 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 5 hours ago, dgambill said: Because no one gets assist when they throw the ball to Reneau…you don’t get an assist when the guy pounds the ball 5-6 times on the floor backing and lowering his shoulder until he shoots. An assist is credited when the pass leads directly to a made shot or attempt. Malik gets assist because people are all wide open to shoot on the rare times he does pass it out. When he gets it the offense stops moving…it actually stops and because a 1-1 show. He is our best 1-1 player for sure…and I’m not saying he isn’t effective scorer but this is the same offense as with Trayce last year…difference…Trayce passed out of those doubles a bunch more. Trayce is in the nba because he also plays defense but his passing is why GS took him. Reneau is a plodder, stands straight up on defense, has no lateral quickness and doesn’t pass unless is forced to. For a few games he was hitting Ware flashing to the hoop and that was our best stretch. Agree, but Trayce was a much better player as Jr and Sr.. I hope Malik stays, grows and has a couple decent consistent shooters to stay within reach so he also can pop it out. I dont remember Trayce being especially good at that in the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 I want to add that despite the loss at Champaign, this game was much more entertaining and showed great effort by several Hoosiers. Going forward, there is a simple way to improve our record, a higher FT %. Make these guys practice tons of FTs. Many games are won or lost on the FT line only. P.S. Minnesota beat Penn St (granted a weak team) by shooting nearly 90% from the line. They made 23 of 26 attempts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtsensetwo Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 This was another example of the Big Ten’s orchestrated efforts to tilt the officiating to our opponents, as X did not deserve a T for harmlessly tossing the ball. I coached for years and never have experienced this type of egregious bias. When players like Edey get away with murder and X gets treated like a murderer, a formal investigation is warranted. I continue to make Scott aware of my concerns and will consider more formal actions should this situation persist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 49 minutes ago, Courtsensetwo said: This was another example of the Big Ten’s orchestrated efforts to tilt the officiating to our opponents, as X did not deserve a T for harmlessly tossing the ball. I coached for years and never have experienced this type of egregious bias. When players like Edey get away with murder and X gets treated like a murderer, a formal investigation is warranted. I continue to make Scott aware of my concerns and will consider more formal actions should this situation persist. i assume you're talking about @IU Scott just let him know if you want him to send an email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 10 hours ago, 5fouls said: But, as the stats I posted earlier show, faced with a similar team situation, All-Americans TJD, Henderson, and Benson shot it at even a higher rate. A Malik 2, no matter how it is achieved, is better than a clanked 3. I agree if Mgbako is wide open from behind the arc, Malik needs to pass it out. But, our offense isn't getting Mgbako open. And, that's not Malik's fault. He's got two guys guarding him. The problem is that the defense can both double Malik AND shadow Mgbako because there is always someone, or multiple someone's on the court that can't shoot a lick that can be left open. Been on an extended date weekend. Been reading and agree with both sides. TJD became a master of the pass out but reposition and get it right back, ready to attack again. Malik has room to grow. I think we can all agree with that. He's ahead of TJD in many aspects as sophomores. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 Indiana State is fun to watch. Move the ball guys hit shots lots of assist they paly fast and oh yeah the win. Not too late to jump on the Sycamore Bandwagon still lots of room. You will feel better after the game also. Woody and staff watch some of that video and get some guys here who can do those things and maybe you have a chance to win in todays game otherwise we will continue to suck. It must be all those 5 star guys they bring to Terre Haute. FG 3PT FT 33-65 12-29 17-20 50.8 % 41.4 % 85.0 % 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 5 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: Indiana State is fun to watch. Move the ball guys hit shots lots of assist they paly fast and oh yeah the win. Not too late to jump on the Sycamore Bandwagon still lots of room. You will feel better after the game also. Woody and staff watch some of that video and get some guys here who can do those things and maybe you have a chance to win in todays game otherwise we will continue to suck. It must be all those 5 star guys they bring to Terre Haute. FG 3PT FT 33-65 12-29 17-20 50.8 % 41.4 % 85.0 % yeah I'll pass on watching IN ST lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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