Auburn Post Game

[KoB2011]

1 minute ago, Danomatic said:

The primary factor in what I saw going into the season was the guards. You need high quality guards to be able to sustain success at this level. When we didn’t land a difference maker in the portal at the guard position, my expectations changed for this team. Again, I really like our guys, but I didn’t realistically see this team competing for a B1G title or much more once we decided to pocket the last scholarship. Indiana has been most successful when we’ve had great guard play. And for whatever reason, we just haven’t landed much since 2015. 

Give what you said about guard play, and the choice by our staff to not she the last scholarship, what is the takeaway in your mind?

[NCHoosier32]

12 minutes ago, Danomatic said:

The primary factor in what I saw going into the season was the guards. You need high quality guards to be able to sustain success at this level. When we didn’t land a difference maker in the portal at the guard position, my expectations changed for this team. Again, I really like our guys, but I didn’t realistically see this team competing for a B1G title or much more once we decided to pocket the last scholarship. Indiana has been most successful when we’ve had great guard play. And for whatever reason, we just haven’t landed much since 2015. 

i agree.  i just feel like in this college basketball world if you are an IU with the NIL situation, you should be able to have high expectations every year right?  like "rebuilding" shouldn't really be a thing.  you just reload.  i think nearly all of us agree that this is a poorly constructed roster.  i get that you can't get all of your recruiting targets, but you just have to do better than this.  absolutely hurts my soul that the SMELLERMAKERS somehow come up with guys who always fit their system perfectly and have less stars by their names and are always more relevant than us at this point.  

[Hoosierdave]

We are who we are in terms of roster construction. Seems apparent we got a lot of guys playing certain positions but have the skill sets better suited for others. That said, I do think we have talent and can win games as long as we do the following: 

-Shorten the bench and stop the mass subbing. No more than 2 starters out at a time. If a guy like Edey can play 35+ minutes a game, so can Ware and Reneau.

-Play Sparks only if there are foul trouble concerns. He and Reneau have similar styles of play and Malik is better in all aspects. Plus Sparks can’t hit FT’s so half his shots are essentially turnovers.

-Give Mac and Banks a chance to be a stretch 4 if the other team decides to pack the paint. 

-Emphasize to Ware and Reneau they need to be more willing passers. It’s great they can finish through contact but I’d like to see us take those wide open perimeter shots when they are being doubled/tripled. I would hope Mac/Gallo/Gunn/Cupps can shoot when they have time and space. 

-When we’re down by 6+ points, we need to get into our sets MUCH quicker and have a sense of urgency when we’re playing from behind. 

-Dominate the glass. More teams miss than they make. If we don’t have shooters, we need to get additional possessions and make the most of transition opportunities. 

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

 I’d happily take a guard that plays freely on this team. 

Playing freely is different than what Love did last year

[5 championships]

21 minutes ago, Hoosierdave said:

We are who we are in terms of roster construction. Seems apparent we got a lot of guys playing certain positions but have the skill sets better suited for others. That said, I do think we have talent and can win games as long as we do the following: 

-Shorten the bench and stop the mass subbing. No more than 2 starters out at a time. If a guy like Edey can play 35+ minutes a game, so can Ware and Reneau.

-Play Sparks only if there are foul trouble concerns. He and Reneau have similar styles of play and Malik is better in all aspects. Plus Sparks can’t hit FT’s so half his shots are essentially turnovers.

-Give Mac and Banks a chance to be a stretch 4 if the other team decides to pack the paint. 

-Emphasize to Ware and Reneau they need to be more willing passers. It’s great they can finish through contact but I’d like to see us take those wide open perimeter shots when they are being doubled/tripled. I would hope Mac/Gallo/Gunn/Cupps can shoot when they have time and space. 

-When we’re down by 6+ points, we need to get into our sets MUCH quicker and have a sense of urgency when we’re playing from behind. 

-Dominate the glass. More teams miss than they make. If we don’t have shooters, we need to get additional possessions and make the most of transition opportunities. 

Love this post 

[Euroclydon]

X being out is a killer on both ends even with his bipolar play. He takes a lot of pressure off Galloway and the other guards and he's a physical defender.

The result is Galloway is once again being forced to play point more than he should, which he is not. That hurts his game on both ends. It all leads to more pressure on Cupps as a freshman. Gunn is not even close to a point guard.

If X comes back they have a chance to reach their potential but the reality is this team can't lose any guards for any amount of time and still have a chance against better teams.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Euroclydon

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

Playing freely is different than what Love did last year

Seems like he got reigned in just fine this year. Did Woodson not think he could do that?

[rico]

12 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Seems like he got reigned in just fine this year. Did Woodson not think he could do that?

At this point, I really don't know what to think about Woody and staff's decisions on bringing in guards.

[13th&Jackson]

8 minutes ago, rico said:

At this point, I really don't know what to think about Woody and staff's decisions on bringing in guards.

I do. It's not good. Butler has four 2023-24 transfer guards; Brooks, Telfort, Alexander and Davis who are all better than IU's guards. Butler was a disaster last year, but that didn't prevent Thad from bringing in a haul in the portal. They also added a post player in Screen, who's been really good. Those are their five leading scorers. 

Those four transfer guards are all averaging double figure scoring and per game are contributing 56 pts, 16.6 rebs, 12.1 asts. They play uptempo and share the ball. 

[rico]

6 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

I do. It's not good. Butler has four 2023-24 transfer guards; Brooks, Telfort, Alexander and Davis who are all better than IU's guards. Butler was a disaster last year, but that didn't prevent Thad from bringing in a haul in the portal. They also added a post player in Screen, who's been really good. Those are their five leading scorers. 

Those four transfer guards are all averaging double figure scoring and per game are contributing 56 pts, 16.6 rebs, 12.1 asts. They play uptempo and share the ball. 

So you are saying we should have hired Matta?  

[13th&Jackson]

4 minutes ago, rico said:

So you are saying we should have hired Matta?  

Well, I have degrees from IU and Butler, so I'm happy Thad went to Butler.  I'm enjoying watching Butler play. But my first love was IU basketball, so I wish IU basketball was more entertaining. 

 

[BGleas]

Yikes!

 

 

[HoosierDPU95]

I don't know what was said (or not said) to any of the potential guard transfers/recruits and I highly doubt anyone on this board does either.

Is it unreasonable for our staff to tell any recruit that they will have to earn a starting spot and not promise it to them? I suspect Ware and Mac were given similar messages but it was a whole lot easier for them to see how it would play out. Potential guards were looking at 2 senior starters they would have to compete with.

Again, I know nothing but I'm pretty sure the staff wasn't sitting around saying "nah, we're good at guard. Let's just go watch CNN"

[NCHoosier32]

4 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

I don't know what was said (or not said) to any of the potential guard transfers/recruits and I highly doubt anyone on this board does either.

Is it unreasonable for our staff to tell any recruit that they will have to earn a starting spot and not promise it to them? I suspect Ware and Mac were given similar messages but it was a whole lot easier for them to see how it would play out. Potential guards were looking at 2 senior starters they would have to compete with.

Again, I know nothing but I'm pretty sure the staff wasn't sitting around saying "nah, we're good at guard. Let's just go watch CNN"

i think those days are gone sadly.  i would imagine Ware was told he would not only start but be the focal point and be free to play on the wing, etc.  same with telling Mbako he would start and play the 3.  

[Hoosier987]

See below. I don’t know if this is reassuring (in the sense our starters can play with a lot of teams) or alarming…and why are our starters only playing 11 min together? Point is, the Staff should simplify. Let our best players play.

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Hoosier987

[Hoosier987]

2 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Seems like he got reigned in just fine this year. Did Woodson not think he could do that?

To further your point…

[Inequality]

Arizona hasn’t skipped a beat with the staff change.

Love has always been highly skilled so not surprised. He found a good fit for him.

[tdhoosier]

2 hours ago, Hoosier987 said:

See below. I don’t know if this is reassuring (in the sense our starters can play with a lot of teams) or alarming…and why are our starters only playing 11 min together? Point is, the Staff should simplify. Let our best players play.

 

Unless there’s foul trouble, Ware or Malik should always be on the floor. They should never be on the bench together. And when Ware is getting a rest, move Malik to the 5 and let MM play the 4. 

[MSHoosier]

4 hours ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

I don't know what was said (or not said) to any of the potential guard transfers/recruits and I highly doubt anyone on this board does either.

Is it unreasonable for our staff to tell any recruit that they will have to earn a starting spot and not promise it to them? I suspect Ware and Mac were given similar messages but it was a whole lot easier for them to see how it would play out. Potential guards were looking at 2 senior starters they would have to compete with.

Again, I know nothing but I'm pretty sure the staff wasn't sitting around saying "nah, we're good at guard. Let's just go watch CNN"

This sounds right to me, however, I think possible transfers also had to factor in what kind of opportunity they would get to shoot even when they would get in the game.

[kyhoosier29]

2 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

Unless there’s foul trouble, Ware or Malik should always be on the floor. They should never be on the bench together. And when Ware is getting a rest, move Malik to the 5 and let MM play the 4. 

Nope, too much logic in this. 

[HMSHoosier]

I don't post much but thought I would give my 2 cents worth.  I was at the game on Saturday and what started out to be very promising turned into a s***show.  I agree to substitution pattern definitely sucked, but in my opinion what changed the game a lot was after the timeout when IU was up 10 or 12 the game changed physically. It went from basketball to more of a tackle basketball kinda like what Rutgers plays, and they never tried to punch back. We sat on the side line and it was hard to watch our interior players literally getting grabbed and held and nothing get called.

That being said there are other things I personally noticed. 

1.) Ware and Malik need to figure out or do a better job of recognizing the double and sometimes triple teams and get rid of the ball. 

2.) I think there needs to be more set plays to actually free up shooters to get 3 point shots. Personally I think we have good shooters but their never put in situations to actually get into a rhythm. Early in that game when everything was flowing the shots were going in.

I seen in a bunch of places that Woodson shouldn't have sat Galloway with 2 fouls in the first half. While I will agree that he should have brought back in at some point to maybe help, but everybody on here knows if he would have done that and Galloway picked up a 3rd foul everybody would be saying why did he put him back in. We are 7-2, yes we got blown out twice and that sucks, but also remember that this is basically a whole new team with 8 new players. Not making excuses but to think we were going to be as good as last year to start this year was a reach after losing 4 starters and top 4 point getters. I think as the season goes on we will have up and down moments but in the end I feel they will be pretty good.

[KoB2011]

17 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Well, I have degrees from IU and Butler, so I'm happy Thad went to Butler.  I'm enjoying watching Butler play. But my first love was IU basketball, so I wish IU basketball was more entertaining. 

 

My wife went to Butler and my oldest daughter slightly prefers them over IU, so we watch and go to games. They're a very fun team to watch. 

[IUFLA]

1 hour ago, HMSHoosier said:

but in my opinion what changed the game a lot was after the timeout when IU was up 10 or 12 the game changed physically. It went from basketball to more of a tackle basketball kinda like what Rutgers plays

That's what I saw...When their other big, Cardwell came in, he was stoked and playing Ware very physically...Took Kel'el out of his game...

Rewatched the game, and we were tied at 24 (I think) we had all of our starters in, and we missed a couple of bunnies, Mac made 2 turnovers, and next thing you know, we're down 12...

I know some will say that the momentum shift occurred when we went to the bench, but we were very much still in the game when our starters (mingled intermittently with CJ and Leal) came back in...

Edited December 11, 2023 by IUFLA

[Danomatic]

21 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Give what you said about guard play, and the choice by our staff to not she the last scholarship, what is the takeaway in your mind?

My takeaway is that the college game is fluid and rosters will change substantially over the course of a season. I don’t think you should ever not take a chance on a high risk/reward type of player in the portal. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work, but use that scholarship. Because there’s a great chance that we lose 30-40% of the roster in turnover anyway. Again, maybe the staff was convinced that we were going to be fine. That being said, I don’t think I know more than anyone else, but I personally didn’t feel comfortable with what we had coming into the season from our backcourt. Yes, the front court is extremely talented, but we lack balance.

[Maedhros]

18 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said:

I do. It's not good. Butler has four 2023-24 transfer guards; Brooks, Telfort, Alexander and Davis who are all better than IU's guards. Butler was a disaster last year, but that didn't prevent Thad from bringing in a haul in the portal. They also added a post player in Screen, who's been really good. Those are their five leading scorers. 

Those four transfer guards are all averaging double figure scoring and per game are contributing 56 pts, 16.6 rebs, 12.1 asts. They play uptempo and share the ball. 

I'll say this, with no judgment or comment on Woodson intended: in the future Indiana fans will look back in confoundment that we had Thad Matta on staff and let him get away. Like watching what Sampson is doing in Houston, but without the NCAA violations during his time here.