Drroogh Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 5 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Which is where I think a lot of people underrate us... Read this today, and I couldn't agree more... Mike Woodson is 60-43 and 31-29 in the Big 10 over his 3 years...It takes time...I know some of y'all are impatient... 5 years ago, would anybody have Dan Hurley at the top of the college coaching profession? Top 10? Top 20? Good things come to those who wait Not that it matters but I think 2022 set the program back. The way X finished everyone was using that against IU in recruiting. What high end guard wanted in on that situation when it was expected that X was going to be an all BIG point guard? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 22 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Which is where I think a lot of people underrate us... Read this today, and I couldn't agree more... Mike Woodson is 60-43 and 31-29 in the Big 10 over his 3 years...It takes time...I know some of y'all are impatient... 5 years ago, would anybody have Dan Hurley at the top of the college coaching profession? Top 10? Top 20? Good things come to those who wait Former NBA guys in their first 3 years.... Patrick Ewing was 49-46 Anfernee Hardaway was 63-26 Juwan Howard was 61-32 Avery Johnson was 57-46 Stats are fun. 😎✌️ Not saying Woody can't have success, but picking out anomalies as if they are the norm does not comfort me. I sure am going to be rooting hard for him though. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 2 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: Former NBA guys in their first 3 years.... Patrick Ewing was 49-46 Anfernee Hardaway was 63-26 Juwan Howard was 61-32 Avery Johnson was 57-46 Stats are fun. 😎✌️ Not saying Woody can't have success, but picking out anomalies as if they are the norm does not comfort me. I sure am going to be rooting hard for him though. Do you think any of the coaches you mentioned were setting up a "proper foundation"? And that's why they ultimately failed...They're the very epitome of "instant success" trap (as modest as some of it was). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 3 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Do you think any of the coaches you mentioned were setting up a "proper foundation"? And that's why they ultimately failed...They're the very epitome of "instant success" trap (as modest as some of it was). I'm not sure I've seen evidence that Woody has set-up a proper foundation, if I'm being honest. At least no more evidence that what any of the coaches I listed above did in their first 3 years. There's 6 new players on this team. And while i think he can win with them, I'm not sure I'm calling that 'foundational.' i'm not sure a declining defense rating, continually poor shooting and a lack of fundamentals and executions is 'foundational' either. Look, I'm excited as hell about next year. I'm not concerned about a lack of talent. I think our roster is finally balanced. We have more guard depth. Looks like we'll have some shooting too. But the sentiment around here can generally be summed up as 'cautiously optimistic'. For me, the only reason for 'caution' is Woody. Don't mean to be a jerk, just telling the truth about how I feel. I know you don't agree and that's fine. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 16 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: I'm not sure I've seen evidence that Woody has set-up a proper foundation, if I'm being honest. At least no more evidence that what any of the coaches I listed above did in their first 3 years. There's 6 new players on this team. And while i think he can win with them, I'm not sure I'm calling that 'foundational.' i'm not sure a declining defense rating, continually poor shooting and a lack of fundamentals and executions is 'foundational' either. Look, I'm excited as hell about next year. I'm not concerned about a lack of talent. I think our roster is finally balanced. We have more guard depth. Looks like we'll have some shooting too. But the sentiment around here can generally be summed up as 'cautiously optimistic'. For me, the only reason for 'caution' is Woody. Don't mean to be a jerk, just telling the truth about how I feel. I know you don't agree and that's fine. If you listen to the kids who have left the program, and the ones who've stayed, the foundational process is pretty clear, at least to me. But, we'll just disagree there I guess... And you're not being a jerk...Just a conversation...I, too, think we have a bevy of talent...and if we can't do well with this bunch, then it might be time to move on... I can't wait for the season to get here... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluegrassIU Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 Be careful, we are teetering into the topic that's should be in the Mike Woodson thread. 😁 And @tdhoosier ain't playing around on his expectations. 😯😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 8 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said: Be careful, we are teetering into the topic that's should be in the Mike Woodson thread. 😁 And @tdhoosier ain't playing around on his expectations. 😯😂 (I believe that's what the kids say) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drroogh Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 1 hour ago, tdhoosier said: (I believe that's what the kids say) Crap I keep telling my Millennial neighbor friend that her and I speak a different language!😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 2 hours ago, IUFLA said: Do you think any of the coaches you mentioned were setting up a "proper foundation"? And that's why they ultimately failed...They're the very epitome of "instant success" trap (as modest as some of it was). Where have you heard these types of comments before? Michigan’s initial recruiting list is based off basketball talent, but is condensed to those with a strong basketball IQ who have high character and care about the educational element of college. “The vetting process,” assistant coach Saddi Washington said, “is really thorough.” Other coaches promised playing time or a certain role in the offense. Not Howard. (Caleb) Houstan said he was told he’d have to earn his minutes. “Practices are going to prove everything,” Howard told him. "He didn’t just tell me things I wanted to hear,” Houstan said. “He told me the actual truth. That stood out a lot.” Howard talks up the family atmosphere within the program, a vibe current Wolverines can confirm. “Once you go to Michigan, you’re part of that family,” Houstan said. “Even after you leave.” 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 19 Report Share Posted June 19 1 hour ago, 13th&Jackson said: Where have you heard these types of comments before? Michigan’s initial recruiting list is based off basketball talent, but is condensed to those with a strong basketball IQ who have high character and care about the educational element of college. “The vetting process,” assistant coach Saddi Washington said, “is really thorough.” Other coaches promised playing time or a certain role in the offense. Not Howard. (Caleb) Houstan said he was told he’d have to earn his minutes. “Practices are going to prove everything,” Howard told him. "He didn’t just tell me things I wanted to hear,” Houstan said. “He told me the actual truth. That stood out a lot.” Howard talks up the family atmosphere within the program, a vibe current Wolverines can confirm. “Once you go to Michigan, you’re part of that family,” Houstan said. “Even after you leave.” Gee...I thought I was on ignore, and was "one of the few posters who brings no pleasure to the board." So I'm surprised you'd even want to address me. That said, I'm sure a lot of coaches say the same things. But there's a difference between talking the talk and walking the walk. I have yet to see Coach Woodson having to be restrained during a game from going after the opposing coach (Mark Turgeon), or slap an assistant coach in a handshake line (Joe Krabbenhoft) or have to be separated from his strength and conditioning coach (Jon Sanderson, who was sticking up for a trainer that Jace Howard was berating...to which Sanderson said "That’s why the effin’ culture is the way it is around here"), nor has he lost a high profile player like Hunter Dickinson to the portal. He also hasn't finished 8-24...Those are all foundational cultural issues that are at the feet of the head coach. So there are your differences... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 47 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Gee...I thought I was on ignore, and was "one of the few posters who brings no pleasure to the board." So I'm surprised you'd even want to address me. That said, I'm sure a lot of coaches say the same things. But there's a difference between talking the talk and walking the walk. I have yet to see Coach Woodson having to be restrained during a game from going after the opposing coach (Mark Turgeon), or slap an assistant coach in a handshake line (Joe Krabbenhoft) or have to be separated from his strength and conditioning coach (Jon Sanderson, who was sticking up for a trainer that Jace Howard was berating...to which Sanderson said "That’s why the effin’ culture is the way it is around here"), nor has he lost a high profile player like Hunter Dickinson to the portal. He also hasn't finished 8-24...Those are all foundational cultural issues that are at the feet of the head coach. So there are your differences... Other than Penny, who brought in all his AAU guys, I don’t think the other three were going for the quick fix. I think both Howard and Ewing truly cared about their Alma maters. They just all failed for various reasons, but there’s no evidence they weren’t trying to establish a foundation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 (edited) 11 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said: Other than Penny, who brought in all his AAU guys, I don’t think the other three were going for the quick fix. I think both Howard and Ewing truly cared about their Alma maters. They just all failed for various reasons, but there’s no evidence they weren’t trying to establish a foundation. I gave you 3 solid examples of Howard undermining foundation building at Michigan...but if that's not enough how about this or this? Sure sounds like he's trying to build a culture there... Just as a side note, Sanderson was hired by Illinois not long after he resigned...So my guess is, it wasn't him that was the problem... And I'm sure they all care about their alma maters... Edited June 20 by IUFLA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 13 hours ago, Drroogh said: Crap I keep telling my Millennial neighbor friend that her and I speak a different language!😂 Hate to break it to you but the youngest millennials are 30. That’s Gen Z talk. 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drroogh Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 19 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: Hate to break it to you but the youngest millennials are 30. That’s Gen Z talk. 😆 She’s borderline at 31. But yeah what catches me up is speaking in allegory about tv shows and movies that I never watched! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 (edited) 10 hours ago, IUFLA said: I gave you 3 solid examples of Howard undermining foundation building at Michigan...but if that's not enough how about this or this? Sure sounds like he's trying to build a culture there... Just as a side note, Sanderson was hired by Illinois not long after he resigned...So my guess is, it wasn't him that was the problem... And I'm sure they all care about their alma maters... So your position is that because Howard is a hothead (not unique among coaches) that he, Ewing, Johnson and Hardaway didn’t have a plan to build a successful foundation according to their vision? But I'm done. This discussion belongs elsewhere. Edited June 20 by 13th&Jackson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 1 hour ago, 13th&Jackson said: So your position is that because Howard is a hothead (not unique among coaches) that he, Ewing, Johnson and Hardaway didn’t have a plan to build a successful foundation according to their vision? But I'm done. This discussion belongs elsewhere. No, my stance is I've provided ample evidence that Juwan Howard was fostering a toxic environment that works against the process of building a culture of success, and you simply ignore it. I could do the same for Hardaway (compliance and recruiting issues) and Ewing (cover up of theft charges and sexual assault, mass exodus 2 years in a row) and you'd ignore those as well... I think rather than the back and forth, we'd both be better off if you put me back on your ignore list... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 Add Chattanooga to the non-con slate 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drroogh Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 6 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Add Chattanooga to the non-con slate 152 rank is alot better than 300! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWB Posted June 21 Report Share Posted June 21 SIAP, but didn't notice it anywhere. TDH has a link to a podcast with Don Fischer. Fisch shares some stories I've never heard before about himself as well as IU BBall. It's worth a listen IMO. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted Monday at 01:06 PM Report Share Posted Monday at 01:06 PM Pretty fair assessment of our Hoosiers from Minnesota's 247 beat writer... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergates Posted Monday at 01:38 PM Report Share Posted Monday at 01:38 PM 30 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Pretty fair assessment of our Hoosiers from Minnesota's 247 beat writer... Nice to read someone who actually knows what they're talking about and even makes statements like: I of course need to preview others before I can make that something I feel certain of. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted Monday at 11:27 PM Report Share Posted Monday at 11:27 PM Rice emerging as the leader.... Mgbako shooting improved 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted Monday at 11:58 PM Report Share Posted Monday at 11:58 PM 30 minutes ago, Reacher said: Rice emerging as the leader.... Mgbako shooting improved It took 26 minutes to say that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted Tuesday at 12:26 AM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 12:26 AM (edited) 58 minutes ago, Reacher said: Rice emerging as the leader.... Mgbako shooting improved Not a fan of that host. I have tried to watch a couple of shows but can only take about 10 minutes Edited Tuesday at 12:26 AM by IU Scott 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted Tuesday at 12:29 AM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 12:29 AM 30 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: It took 26 minutes to say that? That's why I gave you the takeaway- in 8 words 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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