IUBB '24/‘25

[KoB2011]

47 minutes ago, thirdgenhoosier said:

I’m not challenging you.  I’m just asking to further the conversation ONLY for the sake of conversation.  But what if I said we really aren’t that talented?  

It’s an interesting conversation. I think the natural follow up conversation would be “why aren’t we that talented?” 

[thirdgenhoosier]

14 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

It’s an interesting conversation. I think the natural follow up conversation would be “why aren’t we that talented?” 

Well yes if the answer to the first question is we aren’t that talented.  

[Hoosier987]

We are so bad at shooting. This video is pretty much insulting. It’s practically 5 on 2

 

 

[MSHoosier]

33 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

It’s an interesting conversation. I think the natural follow up conversation would be “why aren’t we that talented?” 

I think you can make an argument that  we might be skilled but not athletic in the starters, and athletic but not skilled with the bench. It seems to me just about every team we have played has been quicker than us. Am I wrong?

[KoB2011]

2 hours ago, MSHoosier said:

I think you can make an argument that  we might be skilled but not athletic in the starters, and athletic but not skilled with the bench. It seems to me just about every team we have played has been quicker than us. Am I wrong?

No, you’re not wrong. It’s what happens when you play a big lineup often times, we just happen to play a big lineup that also doesn’t dominate the glass.

It really underscores how dumb it was to leave an open scholarship when we have this type of roster construction issues. Nothing about the limitations of this roster should surprise anyone. 

[NCHoosier32]

11 hours ago, thirdgenhoosier said:

I’m not challenging you.  I’m just asking to further the conversation ONLY for the sake of conversation.  But what if I said we really aren’t that talented?  

it's frustrating because although some say stars don't mean anything, what else do you judge with?  we have three 5 stars starting along with a returning starter.  fair enough to say we aren't highly talented at the PG position.  i'd argue that Walker is talented.  just a poorly put together team and it's hard to understand not using our last scholarship on a guard.  

[IUFLA]

Here's an interesting stat...

In our 3 losses, Kel'el Ware is 4-22 (18%) from 2 point range... He's 3-8 (38%) from 3 in those same games...

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by IUFLA

[Kdug]

33 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Here's an interesting stat...

In our 3 losses, Kel'el Ware is 4-22 (18%) from 2 point range... He's 3-8 (38%) from 3 in those same games...

 

I’d really like to see Ware shoot more from the perimeter, especially when we’re playing teams that can match his size. He’s shown he can be effective out there, and it’d draw the other team’s shot blocker away from the rim.

For those who watch the Pacers, I think the way they use Myles Turner is a good comp. Turner shoots a little over 4 3’s per game, Ware is shooting just over 1 per game.

[tdhoosier]

34 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Here's an interesting stat...

In our 3 losses, Kel'el Ware is 4-22 (18%) from 2 point range... He's 3-8 (38%) from 3 in those same games...

 

I'd like to see a stat on how many touches he's gotten. I think this may be a result of teams packing the paint, which makes it tough for him to get touches with both him and Malik on the floor at the same time. The was also prevalent against Morehead State. 

I'm hoping X coming back may help out this situation. For whatever reason Ware is not being used in the pick and roll as much in the last 5-6 games. I wondering if defense's aren't biting on this because Cupps isn't as big of a threat as X to drive (and draw a foul). 

[IUFLA]

1 minute ago, tdhoosier said:

I'd like to see a stat on how many touches he's gotten. I think this may be a result of teams packing the paint, which makes it tough for him to get touches with both him and Malik on the floor at the same time. The was also prevalent against Morehead State. 

I'm hoping X coming back may help out this situation. For whatever reason Ware is not being used in the pick and roll as much in the last 5-6 games. I wondering if defense's aren't biting on this because Cupps isn't as big of a threat as X to drive (and draw a foul). 

Great point...

He seems to have lost his shooting touch a little as well...even the short turnaround jumpers have been off...I think Woody is on him, and he's pressing a bit...

But he came here to be coached...

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

I'd like to see a stat on how many touches he's gotten. I think this may be a result of teams packing the paint, which makes it tough for him to get touches with both him and Malik on the floor at the same time. The was also prevalent against Morehead State. 

I'm hoping X coming back may help out this situation. For whatever reason Ware is not being used in the pick and roll as much in the last 5-6 games. I wondering if defense's aren't biting on this because Cupps isn't as big of a threat as X to drive (and draw a foul). 

It is really hard to play PnR with two guys posting up. Where are you supposed to drive or role to when someone is on the block?

The offense works better with Walker/Mgbako at the 4 and just one of MR/KW in. I would prefer Ware getting more run over Malik, he's a much better all around player. 

[tdhoosier]

9 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

It is really hard to play PnR with two guys posting up. Where are you supposed to drive or role to when someone is on the block?

The offense works better with Walker/Mgbako at the 4 and just one of MR/KW in. I would prefer Ware getting more run over Malik, he's a much better all around player. 

You'd just flank Malik on the wing, like we did with Race last year, right? That said, Race was much better attacking the baseline. Either way, I don't think it's a tough transition whether Malik is or is not on the floor, but if the picker isn't a scoring threat, it kinda blows everything up. 

[SawatchHoosier]

13 hours ago, Hoosier987 said:

We are so bad at shooting. This video is pretty much insulting. It’s practically 5 on 2

 

 

Dang...Indiana is so bad at shooting the 3 they were double teaming Sparks.

[KoB2011]

17 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

You'd just flank Malik on the wing, like we did with Race last year, right? That said, Race was much better attacking the baseline. Either way, I don't think it's a tough transition whether Malik is or is not on the floor, but if the picker isn't a scoring threat, it kinda blows everything up. 

Sure you can do that, but if you're going to stick Malik out on the wing why play him? What is he adding if it isn't his post offense? 

[tdhoosier]

20 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Sure you can do that, but if you're going to stick Malik out on the wing why play him? What is he adding if it isn't his post offense? 

You don't have to convince me - i think i made a 1,000 word post on how unbalanced our roster is....lol. 

I do think it would be beneficial to have another look/scheme when both are on the floor though. Because let's face it, both will be on the floor a lot. I'm not saying we'll solely be running the PnR for 4 minute stretches. 

[FKIM01]

17 hours ago, thirdgenhoosier said:

I’m not challenging you.  I’m just asking to further the conversation ONLY for the sake of conversation.  But what if I said we really aren’t that talented?  

I think there's a lot of talent in the front court.  It's admittedly thinner at the guard position, but I don't think it's as bad as IU has played.  One guard out temporarily and one for the season certainly has not helped.

...but yes, I think it's fair to say that IU should be better given the talent on the roster.

[KoB2011]

33 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

I think there's a lot of talent in the front court.  It's admittedly thinner at the guard position, but I don't think it's as bad as IU has played.  One guard out temporarily and one for the season certainly has not helped.

...but yes, I think it's fair to say that IU should be better given the talent on the roster.

I agree that there is a fair amount of talent on this roster, but I think your response highlights a few things that are issues of Mike Woodson's choosing:

• Roster construction - talent level may be high, we lack it in important places
• Guard depth - this was discussed all offseason, but the staff chose to not address it. If that staff was counting on getting full seasons out of the combination of X, Galloway, and Newton with their injury histories that's on them. 
• Optimized style of play - I don't think anyone believes we need to shoot 25 threes per game, but we do need to play with better space and pace. The personnel and style we play removes margin for error - we have not had a game yet against a high major team that we've won all three of turnovers, offensive rebounds, and made three points. Those stats directly correlate to extra points. 

[FKIM01]

16 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I agree that there is a fair amount of talent on this roster, but I think your response highlights a few things that are issues of Mike Woodson's choosing:

• Roster construction - talent level may be high, we lack it in important places
• Guard depth - this was discussed all offseason, but the staff chose to not address it. If that staff was counting on getting full seasons out of the combination of X, Galloway, and Newton with their injury histories that's on them. 
• Optimized style of play - I don't think anyone believes we need to shoot 25 threes per game, but we do need to play with better space and pace. The personnel and style we play removes margin for error - we have not had a game yet against a high major team that we've won all three of turnovers, offensive rebounds, and made three points. Those stats directly correlate to extra points. 

I don't know that I completely agree with all of this, but you make some fair points and at least most of it is hard to argue with.  

[kyhoosier29]

4 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

It is really hard to play PnR with two guys posting up. Where are you supposed to drive or role to when someone is on the block?

The offense works better with Walker/Mgbako at the 4 and just one of MR/KW in. I would prefer Ware getting more run over Malik, he's a much better all around player. 

TG and KW played the PnR quite well against Kansas. Unsure why it disappears after it worked so well. 

[KoB2011]

40 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

TG and KW played the PnR quite well against Kansas. Unsure why it disappears after it worked so well. 

We ran it a lot in the comeback on Tuesday, too.

The best stretch X had at IU was heavy PnR at the end of 2022.

I know that I don't know as much as Woody, but when we run stuff the way a lot of us would prefer in games it has good results. It's pretty frustrating we keep going back to the same crap. 

[ledies22]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

I agree that there is a fair amount of talent on this roster, but I think your response highlights a few things that are issues of Mike Woodson's choosing:

• Roster construction - talent level may be high, we lack it in important places
• Guard depth - this was discussed all offseason, but the staff chose to not address it. If that staff was counting on getting full seasons out of the combination of X, Galloway, and Newton with their injury histories that's on them. 
• Optimized style of play - I don't think anyone believes we need to shoot 25 threes per game, but we do need to play with better space and pace. The personnel and style we play removes margin for error - we have not had a game yet against a high major team that we've won all three of turnovers, offensive rebounds, and made three points. Those stats directly correlate to extra points. 

Not necessarily directed at you, but in general...

This is the biggest complaint that grinds my gears currently. Well, "we need to shoot more threes." is, but this is close second.

When MM and KW committed and signed with the program, no one batted an eye about roster construction. On the flip side, if we would have said... no thanks, there would have been even more talks about "missing" on guys.

It's a catch 22 sometimes and us as fans can play the game as the results are coming in. 

Third thing that grinds my gears is me complaining about people complaining. so I will shut up

[BGleas]

6 minutes ago, ledies22 said:

Not necessarily directed at you, but in general...

This is the biggest complaint that grinds my gears currently. Well, "we need to shoot more threes." is, but this is close second.

When MM and KW committed and signed with the program, no one batted an eye about roster construction. On the flip side, if we would have said... no thanks, there would have been even more talks about "missing" on guys.

It's a catch 22 sometimes and us as fans can play the game as the results are coming in. 

Third thing that grinds my gears is me complaining about people complaining. so I will shut up

I'm confused though, nobody is saying we shouldn't have recruited MM or Ware. 

There's an extra scholarship just burning away this year. We needed another guard/perimeter scorer in the worst way. 

Another a portal guard with shot-making ability to thos roster and a healthy XJ and we're good to go. 

[ledies22]

Just now, BGleas said:

I'm confused though, nobody is saying we shouldn't have recruited MM or Ware. 

There's an extra scholarship just burning away this year. We needed another guard/perimeter scorer in the worst way. 

Another a portal guard with shot-making ability to thos roster and a healthy XJ and we're good to go. 

I get that part of it for sure. 

I think a part of that conversation was saving that for all of the '24 recruits we were supposed to get. with that spot we have 2 open remaining as it stands. KW going pro makes 3

I was okay with banking that at the time.

[5 championships]

5 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

It is really hard to play PnR with two guys posting up. Where are you supposed to drive or role to when someone is on the block?

The offense works better with Walker/Mgbako at the 4 and just one of MR/KW in. I would prefer Ware getting more run over Malik, he's a much better all around player. 

Me and @BGleas have been saying this from the beginning. 

[KoB2011]

9 minutes ago, ledies22 said:

I get that part of it for sure. 

I think a part of that conversation was saving that for all of the '24 recruits we were supposed to get. with that spot we have 2 open remaining as it stands. KW going pro makes 3

I was okay with banking that at the time.

Leal, XJ, and Walker is already three. I don't think coming into the season we should have been planning on more than a year of Ware or Mgbako. Plus an over-sign spot. 

You use the open scholarship for a guy who either has just one year left or who can being a multi-year contributor, you still have plenty left for '24 and beyond. That's not even getting into the possibility of guys transferring out.

I think a lot of people didn't like the idea of banking it at the time and it's come back to bite us. We chose to come into the season with two injury prone proven guards, and injury prone incoming freshman, a freshman that profiled as a guy we likely couldn't count on for major production (and that's been true despite him having some really nice attributes), and a sophomore coming of an erratic (to put it kindly) freshman season.