5fouls Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 Former Hoosier Brian Evans upset with the state of the IU program. https://www.kokomotribune.com/indiana/sports/former-hoosier-evans-sounds-off-on-state-of-indiana-program/article_53aeff48-4eee-5f31-936d-0e3e1d4dfcb5.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 3 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Former Hoosier Brian Evans upset with the state of the IU program. https://www.kokomotribune.com/indiana/sports/former-hoosier-evans-sounds-off-on-state-of-indiana-program/article_53aeff48-4eee-5f31-936d-0e3e1d4dfcb5.html Yeah but what does he know? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 10 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Former Hoosier Brian Evans upset with the state of the IU program. https://www.kokomotribune.com/indiana/sports/former-hoosier-evans-sounds-off-on-state-of-indiana-program/article_53aeff48-4eee-5f31-936d-0e3e1d4dfcb5.html I listened to his interview on 107.5 the JMV show and he didn't hold back on Woodson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 Last year at this time, we were 10-6 overall, and 1-4 in the conference... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maedhros Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 (edited) 12 hours ago, KoB2011 said: Yeah but what does he know? I know this is sarcasm, but how would you answer it honestly? Both Woodson and Evans played four years under Knight, and had fantastic careers. Both were first round NBA draft picks, though Woodson had the much better playing career. And when his playing days were done, Woodson spent another 20+ years coaching at the highest level of the sport, and has spent three years adapting to the college game, for better or worse. Evans has no coaching experience that I could find. There's no appeal to authority argument that favors Brian Evans over the coach we have right now in the arena, putting in the work and doing the damn thing. I didn't listen to the interview. I did read the quotes in the article. Evans sounds like any other keyboard warrior of a certain age I meet here and elsewhere, mad at Xavier Johnson and wanting to bring the program back to the ways of Bob Knight. I want that level of success too, but if it were as easy as flicking a switch I'm sure Woodson would have found it. Yet now, less than three years in, after one of the better seasons this program's had in two decades, Evans is ready to call the Woodson era over? Frankly it's disappointing anyone would platform an opinion like this, just because the guy once played for IU 30 years ago. When people talk about the Indiana program eating its own, this is a pretty fine example. Edited January 12 by Maedhros 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 I was just reading an article on ESPN about UCLA getting beat by 46 pts. to Utah. UCLA has now lost 8 of 9 games and appear to be in some sort of a tail spin. Mick Cronin's roster has a some NBA talent, but he gave an interesting take on the current state of his team. "I think guys got punch-drunk," Cronin said after the loss. "They're good kids. We don't have bad kids, trust me. They listen. They're embarrassed, but that doesn't help. I was concerned with this. They're punch-drunk and you've got to fight your way out of it. I've been there before. It's been a while, but I've been there before." This sort of reminded of me of our team a little after a few of our disappointing losses. I've often wondered if this carries over? We play gun shy and a little nervous. JMO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Maedhros said: I know this is sarcasm, but how would you answer it honestly? Both Woodson and Evans played four years under Knight, and had fantastic carrers. Both were first round NBA draft picks, though Woodson had the much better playing career. And when his playing days were done, Woodson spent another 20+ years coaching at the highest level of the sport, and has spent three years adapting to the college game, for better or worse. Evans has no coaching experience that I could find. There's no appeal to authority argument that favors Brian Evans over the coach we have right now doing the damn thing. I didn't listen to the interview. I did read the quotes in the article. Evans sounds like any other keyboard warrior of a certain age I meet here and elsewhere, mad at Xavier Johnson and wanting to bring the program back to the ways of Bob Knight. I want that level of success too, but if it were as easy as flicking a switch I'm sure Woodson would have found it. Yet now, less than three years in, after one of the better seasons this program's had in two decades, Evans is ready to call the Woodson era over? Frankly it's disappointing anyone would platforming an opinion like this, just because the guy once played for IU 30 years ago. When people talk about the Indiana program eating its own, this is a pretty fine example. How do you think Knight would have handled a player who got ejected and cost the team? How would he have handled a team with so many recurring fundamental and mental mistakes? I think that’s what embarrasses Evans. Edited January 12 by 13th&Jackson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 7 minutes ago, Maedhros said: I know this is sarcasm, but how would you answer it honestly? Both Woodson and Evans played four years under Knight, and had fantastic careers. Both were first round NBA draft picks, though Woodson had the much better playing career. And when his playing days were done, Woodson spent another 20+ years coaching at the highest level of the sport, and has spent three years adapting to the college game, for better or worse. Evans has no coaching experience that I could find. There's no appeal to authority argument that favors Brian Evans over the coach we have right now in the arena, putting in the work and doing the damn thing. I didn't listen to the interview. I did read the quotes in the article. Evans sounds like any other keyboard warrior of a certain age I meet here and elsewhere, mad at Xavier Johnson and wanting to bring the program back to the ways of Bob Knight. I want that level of success too, but if it were as easy as flicking a switch I'm sure Woodson would have found it. Yet now, less than three years in, after one of the better seasons this program's had in two decades, Evans is ready to call the Woodson era over? Frankly it's disappointing anyone would platform an opinion like this, just because the guy once played for IU 30 years ago. When people talk about the Indiana program eating its own, this is a pretty fine example. Well written...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 1 minute ago, 13th&Jackson said: How do you think Knight would have handled a player who got got ejected and cost the team? How would he have handled a team with so many recurring fundamental and mental mistakes? I think that’s what embarrasses Evans. We don't know what Woody did about it...Anything said is simply speculation... Mike Woodson is very tight lipped about the internal workings of the team... I said I'd make XJ sit for the Minnesota game, and I would...Dirty play doesn't get it from me... But that's me...I'm sure Woody didn't just "let it go." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: We don't know what Woody did about it...Anything said is simply speculation... Mike Woodson is very tight lipped about the internal workings of the team... I said I'd make XJ sit for the Minnesota game, and I would...Dirty play doesn't get it from me... But that's me...I'm sure Woody didn't just "let it go." True. We’ll see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 14 minutes ago, Maedhros said: There's no appeal to authority argument that favors Brian Evans There’s no appeal to authority argument that’s a valid argument. It’s a logical fallacy. If the only defense you have of something is that “John Smith” said this so it’s true, then you don’t have a defense of your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maedhros Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: How do you think Knight would have handled a player who got got ejected and cost the team? How would he have handled a team with so many recurring fundamental and mental mistakes? I think that’s what embarrasses Evans. The flaw in the argument is in thinking that Woodson doesn't know how Knight would have handled a player who got ejected, or a team that makes mental mistakes. Woodson was there for it every bit as much as Evans was. But even granting the premise, what worked for Knight didn't always work for every player or every team, even in the best of times. That was also a generation ago, before anyone on our current team was born. Times change, and even in his later years still at IU we saw that Knight wasn't changing with them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 1 minute ago, Maedhros said: Times change They do. A coach has to be willing to adapt as the game changes, information changes, etc. or they won’t be successful no matter how much they were successful in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 1 minute ago, 13th&Jackson said: How do you think Knight would have handled a player who got got ejected and cost the team? How would he have handled a team with so many recurring fundamental and mental mistakes? I think that’s what embarrasses Evans. Coming from a huge Knight fan and follower since the 70's........we all know what Coach Knight would have done. With Knight, there was black and there was white, no grey area. I'm not saying that was good or bad, we just knew what would happen in any situation like this with Knight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledies22 Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, Maedhros said: I know this is sarcasm, but how would you answer it honestly? Both Woodson and Evans played four years under Knight, and had fantastic careers. Both were first round NBA draft picks, though Woodson had the much better playing career. And when his playing days were done, Woodson spent another 20+ years coaching at the highest level of the sport, and has spent three years adapting to the college game, for better or worse. Evans has no coaching experience that I could find. There's no appeal to authority argument that favors Brian Evans over the coach we have right now in the arena, putting in the work and doing the damn thing. I didn't listen to the interview. I did read the quotes in the article. Evans sounds like any other keyboard warrior of a certain age I meet here and elsewhere, mad at Xavier Johnson and wanting to bring the program back to the ways of Bob Knight. I want that level of success too, but if it were as easy as flicking a switch I'm sure Woodson would have found it. Yet now, less than three years in, after one of the better seasons this program's had in two decades, Evans is ready to call the Woodson era over? Frankly it's disappointing anyone would platform an opinion like this, just because the guy once played for IU 30 years ago. When people talk about the Indiana program eating its own, this is a pretty fine example. It is easier to sit on the sidelines and be critical. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier4Life53 Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, 13th&Jackson said: True. We’ll see what happens. I would imagine he doesn’t start, but does see some playing time. As Knight liked to say “ass meets the bench”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, Maedhros said: The flaw in the argument is in thinking that Woodson doesn't know how Knight would have handled a player who got ejected, or a team that makes mental mistakes. Woodson was there for it every bit as much as Evans was. But even granting the premise, what worked for Knight didn't always work for every player or every team, even in the best of times. That was also a generation ago, before anyone on our current team was born. Times change, and even in his later years still at IU we saw that Knight wasn't changing with them. No one has suggested he doesn't know. He's chosen a different approach, which is his right. However, I can easily understand how a player such as Evans, who bled cream and crimson, and played through a significant injury, could be shaking his head. The lack of discipline and accountability has to be a surprise. Woodson after RMK's passing: "The best, Bob Knight," Woodson said on what he remembers from his days playing for Knight at Indiana. "He set the stage in terms of putting me in the right position on and off the court to grow as a man. It wasn't easy by any means. I tell these young guys all the time, coach Knight was tough. … when I came here it just went to a different level." I'm sure there's more behind the scenes that isn't apparent, but there just doesn't seem to be accountability for repeated mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledies22 Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 6 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: No one has suggested he doesn't know. He's chosen a different approach, which is his right. However, I can easily understand how a player such as Evans, who bled cream and crimson, and played through a significant injury, could be shaking his head. The lack of discipline and accountability has to be a surprise. Woodson after RMK's passing: "The best, Bob Knight," Woodson said on what he remembers from his days playing for Knight at Indiana. "He set the stage in terms of putting me in the right position on and off the court to grow as a man. It wasn't easy by any means. I tell these young guys all the time, coach Knight was tough. … when I came here it just went to a different level." I'm sure there's more behind the scenes that isn't apparent, but there just doesn't seem to be accountability for repeated mistakes. I feel like with this accountability "issue" one person said there is an issue and it's like an echo chamber and everyone is running with it. What are we talking about? XJ nut grab? or people are playing bad so sit them? or something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 17 minutes ago, ledies22 said: I feel like with this accountability "issue" one person said there is an issue and it's like an echo chamber and everyone is running with it. What are we talking about? XJ nut grab? or people are playing bad so sit them? or something else? I think it's both. XJ has had a series of issues on and off the court. Yet, he's 24 years old and in his sixth year of CBB. Woodson is supposedly about developing young men, but it's hard to see the tough love when it comes to XJ. Players keep making the same mental and fundamental mistakes, yet, starting lineups don't change. Substitution patterns don't change. If you don't develop positive leadership, then you end up with a team without leaders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledies22 Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 13 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: I think it's both. XJ has had a series of issues on and off the court. Yet, he's 24 years old and in his sixth year of CBB. Woodson is supposedly about developing young men, but it's hard to see the tough love when it comes to XJ. Players keep making the same mental and fundamental mistakes, yet, starting lineups don't change. Substitution patterns don't change. If you don't develop positive leadership, then you end up with a team without leaders. Fair, if you think XJ warrants a suspension, that's fine. I don't for a nut tap. For the latter, I'm not sure how these two discussions are happening at the same time. 1) sit players that aren't playing well 2) don't take more than 2 starters off the floor at a time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 (edited) 2 hours ago, Artesian_86 said: Coming from a huge Knight fan and follower since the 70's........we all know what Coach Knight would have done. With Knight, there was black and there was white, no grey area. I'm not saying that was good or bad, we just knew what would happen in any situation like this with Knight. I don't know about that because of the incident with Woodson and two other players. Two of them got the boot hut Woodson was able to stay on the team. I would guess since Woodson was the best player had something to do with that Edited January 12 by IU Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 27 minutes ago, ledies22 said: Fair, if you think XJ warrants a suspension, that's fine. I don't for a nut tap. For the latter, I'm not sure how these two discussions are happening at the same time. 1) sit players that aren't playing well 2) don't take more than 2 starters off the floor at a time. Actually don't favor a suspension. He should just be benched for an indefinite time. It's up to him if he plays again. Let him know that if he's going to do knucklehead things that hurt the team, then he can't be trusted to be played. Pull his captain designation. Make it obvious that the team and program is much bigger than him. If he can get his head screwed on straight and salvage what's left of his career, then fine, if not, so be it. Start Cupps and give Leal more playing time. If Woodson truly cares about the program and is secure in his beliefs that he'll be here for three more years, then hand it off in better condition than he found it, this is the year to sacrifice some wins (although probably not that many) to send a message to the team about expectations. It's one thing if XJ didn't have a history and was just retaliating with a shove in frustration, but this was just an incredibly selfish act that shows no respect for his teammates. Total failure of leadership. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWB Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 Personally I don't see X as a true leader. To me, he's more of a "foreman" when on the court. His issues off the court certainly don't exude leadership. Now...to X's defense, maybe his off court antics would be more like T Shannon alleged offense(s) if not for Woody's guidance vs a dumb speeding stunt, resisting arrest, curfew and others. We don't know. I have also noticed in recent games that Gabe is taken the initiative in several huddles to "lead" (at least that's my interpretation). Gallo leads by example, and plays harder than anybody. But I don't think he's a consistent vocal leader. TJD was CEO, Patton, and a real vocal leader. We don't have that on this team...yet IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 (edited) The on the court leader has to be someone you can count on 100% of the time, and in more than just on the court stuff. Trayce definitely fit in that category... XJ, at this point, doesn't... Cheaney and Alford were great leaders in that mold. Best players on the team who provided a great example both on and off the court. Quinn Buckner wasn't the best player on our best teams ever, but he'd rip your guts out to win, and everyone on the team knew it. Like it or not, our ceiling hinges on how XJ reacts in these next few games. Bardo said last night he'd like to give X a hug, because he knew what he was going through and had been there himself. Galloway is more like a Miller Kopp... A support leader... Not as vocal, but like Miller, a guy who was going to give you everything he has... And Walker is in there too, much like a Race Thompson... But XJ HAS to take the lead for us to reach our potential... Edited January 13 by IUFLA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoyeCowbell Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 On 1/13/2024 at 4:46 AM, IUFLA said: The on the court leader has to be someone you can count on 100% of the time, and in more than just on the court stuff. Trayce definitely fit in that category... XJ, at this point, doesn't... Cheaney and Alford were great leaders in that mold. Best players on the team who provided a great example both on and off the court. Quinn Buckner wasn't the best player on our best teams ever, but he'd rip your guts out to win, and everyone on the team knew it. Like it or not, our ceiling hinges on how XJ reacts in these next few games. Bardo said last night he'd like to give X a hug, because he knew what he was going through and had been there himself. Galloway is more like a Miller Kopp... A support leader... Not as vocal, but like Miller, a guy who was going to give you everything he has... And Walker is in there too, much like a Race Thompson... But XJ HAS to take the lead for us to reach our potential... It's really unfortunate that we don't have a tried and true leader on the court. With Johnson, I feel like we all bought into his years of experience, thinking that would equate to leadership. But the truth is, it hasn't. He hasn't proven to be someone you can count on. And so the team at large has suffered. Galloway is the closest, but he still doesn't possess the requisite mindset to demand excellence at all times -- the single most important leadership quality. When the going gets tough, this team gets lost in a hurry. There is no rudder. There is no safety valve or calming force. Not sure who -- or where -- we get that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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