SawatchHoosier Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 (edited) Apparently the Minnesota/Maryland game was so bad ESPN started deducting points. Edited January 8 by SawatchHoosier 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 2 hours ago, Seeking6 said: That's as deflated as I've seen Izzo in post game presser last night. Not a fan of Sparty or him....but hate to see a Coach look and sound like that. It's January 8th and he looks hopeless. He deserves to feel hopeless. Lots of women have felt hopeless because of his basketball team. 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 24 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: He deserves to feel hopeless. Lots of women have felt hopeless because of his basketball team. Get it for sure and I agree. I'm talking just from the coaching perspective. Xavier Booker with another solid 4 minutes brings me some unnecessary joy too! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 3 hours ago, Seeking6 said: That's as deflated as I've seen Izzo in post game presser last night. Not a fan of Sparty or him....but hate to see a Coach look and sound like that. It's January 8th and he looks hopeless. 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drroogh Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 (edited) 17 hours ago, Seeking6 said: I'm sure though their metrics have them up to 8th. All good in East Lansing and our little Cathedral buddy. I did like Izzo’s take on analytics. The stats — all you analytical guys, I hate analytics, because they're phony. Sooner or later you look at a guy's heart, you look at a guy's eye, and then you find out about a guy. Everybody in the NBA and college now they want analytics. Analytics? What does analytics mean here? (Holding up stat sheet). Huh? Does it mean we won the game? (He slammed down the stat sheet for emphasis.) “Analytics are crap. You know what? Sooner or later, guys gotta just muscle up. May have been some frustration with his comments about not being able to blame the players? Edited January 8 by Drroogh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Just now, Drroogh said: I did like Izzo’s take on analytics. The stats — all you analytical guys, I hate analytics, because they're phony. Sooner or later you look at a guy's heart, you look at a guy's eye, and then you find out about a guy. Everybody in the NBA and college now they want analytics. Analytics? What does analytics mean here? (Holding up stat sheet). Huh? Does it mean we won the game? (He slammed down the stat sheet for emphasis.) “Analytics are crap. You know what? Sooner or later, guys gotta just muscle up. May have been some frustration with his comments about not being able to blame the players? Totally agree with his statements. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 I would love to hear an explanation of what Michigan State needed to do to win without using analytics/metrics or discussing their Xs and Os. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledies22 Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 31 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I would love to hear an explanation of what Michigan State needed to do to win without using analytics/metrics or discussing their Xs and Os. score more points. 😶 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 12 minutes ago, ledies22 said: score more points. 😶 Sounds like a metric to me 🤷 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 49 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I would love to hear an explanation of what Michigan State needed to do to win without using analytics/metrics or discussing their Xs and Os. Izzo sounds completely out of touch and outdated there. Sounds like a guy who the game is passing him by. The people that hate analytics try to portray it like people that use analytics think it's all that matters, which isn't the case at all. Analytics is a part of the story. An important part, but only part, not the entire story. But if you talk analytics, people want to frame it like you think that's all that matters, which isn't the case at all. Izzo ignoring analytics just shows he's out of touch. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drroogh Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 45 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I would love to hear an explanation of what Michigan State needed to do to win without using analytics/metrics or discussing their Xs and Os. I think he made it pretty clear! “Analytics are crap. You know what? Sooner or later, guys gotta just muscle up. Kind of like getting more rebounds! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdug Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 1 hour ago, Drroogh said: I did like Izzo’s take on analytics. The stats — all you analytical guys, I hate analytics, because they're phony. Sooner or later you look at a guy's heart, you look at a guy's eye, and then you find out about a guy. Everybody in the NBA and college now they want analytics. Analytics? What does analytics mean here? (Holding up stat sheet). Huh? Does it mean we won the game? (He slammed down the stat sheet for emphasis.) “Analytics are crap. You know what? Sooner or later, guys gotta just muscle up. May have been some frustration with his comments about not being able to blame the players? I love hearing that. It means MSU is going to make under-informed decisions, and put themselves at a disadvantage. A lot of people have a fundamental misunderstanding of what analytics are. Analytics don’t make decisions for you, they just give you information. It’s up to a coach/team/player to interpret and figure out what to do with that information. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drroogh Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Here’s where I’m going to go off script a bit. The bulk of the analytics that people discuss are based almost exclusively on box scores. For those I agree with Izzo they are crap! On the other hand if you have a team of statisticians fluent in basketball tracking and analyzing the details of each possession and even in practices. Well that’s an entirely different story and I’ll agree that coaches, teams that aren’t there are falling behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 33 minutes ago, Kdug said: I love hearing that. It means MSU is going to make under-informed decisions, and put themselves at a disadvantage. A lot of people have a fundamental misunderstanding of what analytics are. Analytics don’t make decisions for you, they just give you information. It’s up to a coach/team/player to interpret and figure out what to do with that information. It can be as simple as not taking a bunch of twos, one foot inside the three point line. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceDouglas Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Getting interesting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdug Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 2 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: It can be as simple as not taking a bunch of twos, one foot inside the three point line. Yup, that’s a pretty straightforward example of “analytics”. You’re going to make a 21 foot shot and a 22 foot shot at virtually the same rate, but the 22 foot shot is worth one more point. The analytics aren’t telling you to do anything, but any reasonable person would conclude they shouldn’t be shooting the 21 foot 2 point shot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 8 Author Report Share Posted January 8 5 minutes ago, BruceDouglas said: Getting interesting.... In time for 2 home games...Very convenient... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 41 minutes ago, Kdug said: Yup, that’s a pretty straightforward example of “analytics”. You’re going to make a 21 foot shot and a 22 foot shot at virtually the same rate, but the 22 foot shot is worth one more point. The analytics aren’t telling you to do anything, but any reasonable person would conclude they shouldn’t be shooting the 21 foot 2 point shot. I understand taking the 23 over the 21 foot shot but analytics is pretty much taking out the 15-17 foot shot as well. To me turning down wide open 15 foot shots are just dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 3 hours ago, Drroogh said: I think he made it pretty clear! “Analytics are crap. You know what? Sooner or later, guys gotta just muscle up. Kind of like getting more rebounds! More rebounds would fall into the metrics category. If we want to get real tactical looking at offensive rebound percentage is an important part of analytics because it majorly impacts offensive efficiency. Izzo is just doing a great job of demonstrating people complaining about analytics don’t understand them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 29 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: More rebounds would fall into the metrics category. If we want to get real tactical looking at offensive rebound percentage is an important part of analytics because it majorly impacts offensive efficiency. Izzo is just doing a great job of demonstrating people complaining about analytics don’t understand them. Right! You don't need analytics to know they need to rebound better. But someone that appreciates and underarands the analytics might use offensive/defensive rebound percentage to make some playing time decisions to get yoyr best rebounders time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, BruceDouglas said: Getting interesting.... Good luck with that one. Illinois or not if the kid is innocent I hope he gets cleared. OTOH...the PR (which I know Illinois leadership worries about) is certain to cause some backlash. Tough call for Whitman. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 33 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: More rebounds would fall into the metrics category. If we want to get real tactical looking at offensive rebound percentage is an important part of analytics because it majorly impacts offensive efficiency. Izzo is just doing a great job of demonstrating people complaining about analytics don’t understand them. 4 minutes ago, BGleas said: Right! You don't need analytics to know they need to rebound better. But someone that appreciates and underarands the analytics might use offensive/defensive rebound percentage to make some playing time decisions to get yoyr best rebounders time. Guys. Just so were all clear. I use numbers and analytics all day every day in my world. Have since I left IU. No one is debunking their importance....but I think most (myself included) think you guys put a bit much weight on how the actual numbers are derived. Does that mean I don't understand numbers/metrics/analytics? Of course not. Does it mean I look past the numbers and see how they derive them? Of course. Not only past I look 2-3 steps past those numbers. Just using something as simple as NET. How teams like Sparty and Texas could be in the top 30 still while IU is barely inside the 100 tells me the variance and how the numbers are calculated just might have a flaw. Just saying this because it appears it's an analytics vs non debate going on all the time.....and at least from it's not...but you have to look not just at the numbers but also how they are interpreted, arrived at....and eventually applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 13 minutes ago, BGleas said: Right! You don't need analytics to know they need to rebound better. But someone that appreciates and underarands the analytics might use offensive/defensive rebound percentage to make some playing time decisions to get yoyr best rebounders time. I think he can tell who is putting in the effort. His best teams especially early on was known for great rebounding and toughness and he doesn't have that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 6 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: Guys. Just so were all clear. I use numbers and analytics all day every day in my world. Have since I left IU. No one is debunking their importance....but I think most (myself included) think you guys put a bit much weight on how the actual numbers are derived. Does that mean I don't understand numbers/metrics/analytics? Of course not. Does it mean I look past the numbers and see how they derive them? Of course. Not only past I look 2-3 steps past those numbers. Just using something as simple as NET. How teams like Sparty and Texas could be in the top 30 still while IU is barely inside the 100 tells me the variance and how the numbers are calculated just might have a flaw. Just saying this because it appears it's an analytics vs non debate going on all the time.....and at least from it's not...but you have to look not just at the numbers but also how they are interpreted, arrived at....and eventually applied. I think it was on Fox radio today they was having discussions on how analytics is used. In context they were more than talking about how teams were using measurable to much in drafting players in the NFL. They felt you should use production in games over a 40 yard time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 22 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: Guys. Just so were all clear. I use numbers and analytics all day every day in my world. Have since I left IU. No one is debunking their importance....but I think most (myself included) think you guys put a bit much weight on how the actual numbers are derived. Does that mean I don't understand numbers/metrics/analytics? Of course not. Does it mean I look past the numbers and see how they derive them? Of course. Not only past I look 2-3 steps past those numbers. Just using something as simple as NET. How teams like Sparty and Texas could be in the top 30 still while IU is barely inside the 100 tells me the variance and how the numbers are calculated just might have a flaw. Just saying this because it appears it's an analytics vs non debate going on all the time.....and at least from it's not...but you have to look not just at the numbers but also how they are interpreted, arrived at....and eventually applied. I completely understand your point, but see the debate a little differently. Guys like KoB, kdug and I completely understand that analytics are only part of the story (as I said a few post prior). We completely understand that analytics don't make decisions for you, they just provide data for a more informed decision. It's why we post about analytics as well as sharing clips of various sets IU could use, discuss defensive schemes and other X's and O's aspects of the game. Seems to me, we're doing exactly what you're calling for, where many of the anti-analytics guys just say "analytics are stupid" and don't want to talk about them at all. I've posted many, many times about the NET being way more than the ranking. The ranking is almost irrelevant, it's the efficiency numbers that make up the NET that matters. I've also never said I like the NET. I haven't supported the NET ranking, it's just a reality that the efficiency metrics that make the NET matter and IU metrics aren't good. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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