HoosierDom Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 40 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said: I rewatched it at .25x on YouTube. Holden was just cruising down the sideline out of bounds for 4-5 steps. Didn't even attempt to step inbounds until right before the pass. I can't find get mine to play at .25x, but my interpretation of the rule makes things a lot less clear than people seem to be saying. The phrase "first player to touch" does not mean the next player after the passer, it means if it is still in the passer's hands when the out of bounds player steps in then the passer is the first player to touch it and then it's fine. Without slow-mo, I can't tell if the passes still has the ball when the guy comes back in - it's very close. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 His left foot appears to still be out of bounds as the pass is coming to him... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 25 minutes ago, IUFLA said: After my discussion with @btownqb about officials yesterday, I found out that NCAA officials used to be independent contractors and were not bound to one conference. They can have agreements with multiple conferences. DJ Carstensen at one time had agreements with 6 conferences. I couldn't find any current data to show whether that's still the case now... Same argument can be made about the NFL....With all the tv revenue coming into these leagues, there's no excuse for not hiring referees as full-time employees. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) Close up...Right foot appears to be on the line as well with the ball in the air... Edited December 9, 2022 by IUFLA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 8 minutes ago, IUFLA said: His left foot appears to still be out of bounds as the pass is coming to him... I would argue both feet are out of bounds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 31 minutes ago, IUFLA said: After my discussion with @btownqb about officials yesterday, I found out that NCAA officials used to be independent contractors and were not bound to one conference. They can have agreements with multiple conferences. DJ Carstensen at one time had agreements with 6 conferences. I couldn't find any current data to show whether that's still the case now... I understand that. What I am saying is the conference shouldn't extend agreements with those who are incompetent. I'm sure there are some good MVC officials that would gladly trade a night in Terre Haute for one in Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Artesian_86 said: Man I just watched that video clip on Youtube and it is sooooo obvious that shot should not have counted! He was running down the floor and just veers of out of bounds past the time line, right where the coaches box is and then steps right back inbounds for the pass..... That is very bad officiating and I would be livid if I were Rutgers.....!!! 1 hour ago, mrflynn03 said: I rewatched it at .25x on YouTube. Holden was just cruising down the sideline out of bounds for 4-5 steps. Didn't even attempt to step inbounds until right before the pass. 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: Right up front...it's a violation... 1 hour ago, Billingsley99 said: Thats why I do not think the shot should have counted. His momentum did not take him out of bounds not was he forced out. 1 hour ago, rogue3542 said: This is a screenshot of the NCAA rulebook for 22-23. The highlighted part is new for this year, but is not applicable to this play as the OSU player's momentum isn't what took him out of bounds. Quoting all of you because it's easier, and will say I haven't watched in slow mo so what I'm about to say may make it even more obvious it was a missed call or may make it clear it wasn't. The rule in question, and that is quoted, would allow the play to be legal if he were back in bounds before the pass left his teammates hand. In that scenario, his teammate was the first one to touch the ball upon him returning and it's legal. @mrflynn03you watched in slo-mo, was he back in bounds before the pass left his teammates hand? The second issue no one has mentioned, and I'm not sure this is true in college but fairly certain it is in high school, is you can't just "hang out" out of bounds. It's a technical foul to do that. Does anyone know if that rule is also in college? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Quoting all of you because it's easier, and will say I haven't watched in slow mo so what I'm about to say may make it even more obvious it was a missed call or may make it clear it wasn't. The rule in question, and that is quoted, would allow the play to be legal if he were back in bounds before the pass left his teammates hand. In that scenario, his teammate was the first one to touch the ball upon him returning and it's legal. @mrflynn03you watched in slo-mo, was he back in bounds before the pass left his teammates hand? The second issue no one has mentioned, and I'm not sure this is true in college but fairly certain it is in high school, is you can't just "hang out" out of bounds. It's a technical foul to do that. Does anyone know if that rule is also in college? It looks like his left foot was still planted out of bounds as the pass was leaving the passers hands. The guy that passed was looking like he was going to shoot and Holden moved to provide an outlet it looks like. His right foot looked to still be off the floor. Edited December 9, 2022 by mrflynn03 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 He was out of bounds from mid court to the coaches box. That's pretty significant even with things moving fast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 19 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Quoting all of you because it's easier, and will say I haven't watched in slow mo so what I'm about to say may make it even more obvious it was a missed call or may make it clear it wasn't. The rule in question, and that is quoted, would allow the play to be legal if he were back in bounds before the pass left his teammates hand. In that scenario, his teammate was the first one to touch the ball upon him returning and it's legal. @mrflynn03you watched in slo-mo, was he back in bounds before the pass left his teammates hand? The second issue no one has mentioned, and I'm not sure this is true in college but fairly certain it is in high school, is you can't just "hang out" out of bounds. It's a technical foul to do that. Does anyone know if that rule is also in college? Pretty sure that's a universal rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drroogh Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 CBS saying basket should not have counted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 26 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Quoting all of you because it's easier, and will say I haven't watched in slow mo so what I'm about to say may make it even more obvious it was a missed call or may make it clear it wasn't. The rule in question, and that is quoted, would allow the play to be legal if he were back in bounds before the pass left his teammates hand. In that scenario, his teammate was the first one to touch the ball upon him returning and it's legal. @mrflynn03you watched in slo-mo, was he back in bounds before the pass left his teammates hand? The second issue no one has mentioned, and I'm not sure this is true in college but fairly certain it is in high school, is you can't just "hang out" out of bounds. It's a technical foul to do that. Does anyone know if that rule is also in college? This play helped establish that rule. Washington Catholic https://youtu.be/0DcJ_NHQd9g 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyhoosier29 Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 2 hours ago, rogue3542 said: This is a screenshot of the NCAA rulebook for 22-23. The highlighted part is new for this year, but is not applicable to this play as the OSU player's momentum isn't what took him out of bounds. Good point. He didn’t allude to the momentum part, but did say he would have to see it live. That surprises me in basketball on the out of bounds part. Doesn’t make sense to me like it does in football, but I’m sure somebody has an idea why it’s a rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 18 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: This play helped establish that rule. Washington Catholic https://youtu.be/0DcJ_NHQd9g Here's a story I found on that play. https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2019/12/11/indiana-high-school-basketball-bathroom-trick-play-lives-infamy/2580918001/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 Just now, kyhoosier29 said: Good point. He didn’t allude to the momentum part, but did say he would have to see it live. That surprises me in basketball on the out of bounds part. Doesn’t make sense to me like it does in football, but I’m sure somebody has an idea why it’s a rule. In this play had he not went out of bounds he would have had a defender in his way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyhoosier29 Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: Close up...Right foot appears to be on the line as well with the ball in the air... I was told that as long as one foot is down inbounds the second can be in the air when he catches the ball. It’s not when it is thrown. 🤷🏻♂️ I’m sure the “momentum” part of the rule is pretty debatable. My guess, outside of it happening underneath the basket, that this happens a lot and is never called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 26 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said: In this play had he not went out of bounds he would have had a defender in his way. Right. It's similar to a gunner in football running out of bounds along the sidelines to avoid blockers. Not allowed unless forced out. Not saying it's a violation in this instance, but it shouldn't be allowed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogue3542 Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 31 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said: Good point. He didn’t allude to the momentum part, but did say he would have to see it live. That surprises me in basketball on the out of bounds part. Doesn’t make sense to me like it does in football, but I’m sure somebody has an idea why it’s a rule. Like Flynn said, hanging out beyond the out of bounds line is a clear and unfair advantage. One could surmise that this rule was written with a very similar scenario in mind - in that it gave the offensive player a clear and unfair advantage over the defense. Had the OSU player remained in bounds as he should have within the rules, his teammate would have had no passing angle due to the defenders in the area. Basically, this whole scenario is a textbook example of why this rule exists, at least in my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 I found this interesting from the Columbus Dispatch.... Coach Holtman knew it was shouldn't have counted with is back handed comment.... Since Holden went out of bounds under his own volition and not due to momentum caused by diving for a loose ball, for example, he should have not been permitted to be the first player to touch the ball on Thornton’s pass regardless of if he got at least one foot down before catching the ball. The situation is not a reviewable play. “Whether that was the case or not, it’s a live ball,” Ohio State coach Chris Holtmann said. “Officials are going to make the right call, they’re going to miss some calls, those things tend to usually even out.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdue7 Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 I am always amazed watching Zed Key with a firearm (nice autocorrect from forearm) in the back and his hand on the hip of the post player that being said…never thought he’d be this good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 So I guess it's substantiated that it shouldn't have counted... Not like I'd lose any sleep either way, but having Rutgers get a little comeuppance isn't a bad thing... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 1 hour ago, btownqb said: Pretty sure that's a universal rule. That's what I thought, but I couldn't find anything when I googled it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Drroogh said: CBS saying basket should not have counted! Wonder if the committee will look at this game if these teams are right the bubble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 48 minutes ago, IUFLA said: So I guess it's substantiated that it shouldn't have counted... Not like I'd lose any sleep either way, but having Rutgers get a little comeuppance isn't a bad thing... Yes, but the player with the ball is the first one to touch it, so it comes back to if he was established before the pass. It looks like he was not, but it was a bang bang play on that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted December 9, 2022 Report Share Posted December 9, 2022 I guess it's good OSU won. Better chance of them being ranked when we beat them in a few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.