IUCrazy2 Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 10 hours ago, IU Scott said: I know the last couple of years both of us has thought there is something that is just missing from this team. Still trying to put my finger on it but it seems like this team just is different from a lot of other teams I have watched. Ni know we pay a lot close attention to IU but something is missing. I just don't see enthusiasm from the players and there are no guys who looks like they hate losing. I know that isn't true because the players are the ones who are putting all the work in. We don't have an edge to our program. I think it is the whole culture around the program. Do other schools have the hype machine that Indiana does? I think there is an idea that you have "made it" just by being on the team. Additionally, whether it comes from the staff, the AD, or the University itself, we have taken on the "participation trophy" persona. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 10 hours ago, BGleas said: Agree. Like I said, the expectations have to be lowered a bit, you can't lose who we've lost and not have some drop-off, but that doesn't mean we still don't have the talent to compete and finish strong enough to be a dangerous tournament team as we get XJ and Thompson back. But, some things are going to have to change and be retooled. IU might need to play different and adjust the style of play and who plays, etc. This is where a coach really earns his paycheck. We really need a different offensive scheme. The stand around the perimeter and watch TJD either go to the hole like the man child he is or hope he passes it out. Occasionally when the ball moves around the perimeter is a thing of beauty. The one thing @IU Scottand I will always seem to agree on is out guards do not move or cut or try to get to open spots nearly enough. We don't go inside out nearly enough and wait for TJD to do everything. The 3 man weave at the top of the key is not an offense. Its time delay. When was the last time you saw a baseline pass to a cutting player that ended up as an easy layup or HUGE dunk. We can do better. Coach needs to do better with as much talent as we have. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 12 hours ago, BGleas said: The injuries matter. You can't lose two of your four best players, especially two seniors, and think there won't be a drop. There has to be a drop. The expectations have to change. This team isn't going to win a Big Ten Title, that's most likely out the door. With that said, the season isn't over. It sounds like XJ and Race will be back, so a tournament run is not out of the question, but that means the season can't tank right now. We have to make the tournament and make it with a decent seed. The fort has to be held down and we have the talent for that. Mike Woodson wanted this job. He wanted the IU pressure, heck he asked for it. He's wanted this for over a decade, if not longer. Now it's time to earn it and show he's the guy. Time to coach this team to where it needs to get to. Time to retool it to maximize around who is healthy. We have two 5* studs that are fully capable of carrying the offense. Woodson now has to surround them with only the guys willing to bust it on defense and stay in front of their man, not turnover it over, sprint with purpose in transition both ways, and play with a high IQ. The bench gets shortened and you only play if you're doing the aforementioned things. Doesn't matter what your name is, how many stars you had next to your name in high school or what year you are, compliment TJD and JHS with winning plays or sit down. Time to get creative offensively with the ball in JHS's hands with high ball screen action between him and TJD and everyone plays off it. If JG and MR are unanplayable, then they don't play. If we only play 6 guys, we only play 6 guys. But Woodson wanted this, time to show he's the guy. That's not necessarily a criticism of him to this point, just saying the season isn't over but it's time to show you can coach this team to success. IU can't afford losses to the bottom of the league at this point. We can't afford games against bottom Big Ten teams where we don't show up at the start of each half, make tons of defensive mistakes, miss evert key free throw, turn it over, etc. You know I'm your biggest fan here. You are my board coach so I have to ask. Hasn't the defense figured out how to guard Trayce in the pick and roll? And also, I don't see JHS consistently delivering the ball to Trayce out of the pnr, in regards to turnovers efficiently enough. What I saw yesterday was Northwestern just packing the lane behind the pick and roll rendering it ineffective while also maintaining good position to close out. Also, JHS had a least one really bad turnover at Trayce's feet in the final few minutes in the pnr and iirc there was more than that that got stolen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier4Life53 Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 11 hours ago, IU Scott said: I know this will come off sappy and probably a little pathetic. This last week I have been looking at myself and not liking my attitude or what I see of myself. I am really working on my faith and trying to be a better person. So the first thing I need to do is to apologize to anyone on here I have offended over the years. The thing I need to work on is accepting that other people will have different opinions than mine and there is nothing wrong with that. Everyone has the right to their opinion and mine are no better than anybody else. None of us are right or wrong with how we fill about things and who am I to question anybody's opinion on any subject. Over the years I have acted like I knew more about IU and my opinion is the only right opinion . I really thinking about this today after the game where I was disappointed in our loss. Driving to my son's house in Plainfield to pick him up for the Pacers game. I told myself not to let the outcome of the game to ruin my time with my son. Got to his house and got to see my two granddaughters and it just brought a new perspective for me. There is no reason an outcome of a sporting event should ever effect my mood. I have no influence on what happens on the court or field and did nothing to prepare for the game. I just sit on my fat butt on the couch watching others play sports. I know the ridicule about this post will come but I wanted to get this off if my chest. Go Hoosiers Great post…normally, with the two losses we suffered this week, I’d be miserable, but we were visiting with our brand new grandson in Miami, so I was determined not to let it ruin the moment and to enjoy the special time with my family. I reminded myself there’s more important things than IU basketball, and it’s important to keep that in perspective. We’re only fans and the coaches, players and their families have so much more invested in the game than we do. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 10 hours ago, IU Scott said: I know the last couple of years both of us has thought there is something that is just missing from this team. Still trying to put my finger on it but it seems like this team just is different from a lot of other teams I have watched. Ni know we pay a lot close attention to IU but something is missing. I just don't see enthusiasm from the players and there are no guys who looks like they hate losing. I know that isn't true because the players are the ones who are putting all the work in. We don't have an edge to our program. We are missing fierce competitors. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier4Life53 Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) As tough as the loss was, I thoroughly enjoyed watching the performance that TJD and JHS put on yesterday. If we can just get more consistency from the supporting cast, we can still be pretty good and a serious threat in the BTT and the NCAAs. It’s beginning to look like JHS might only be here for one season, so we better appreciate him while we can. Edited January 9, 2023 by Hoosier4Life53 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BAHoosier Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 Watched this youtube video after the game and this perspective pretty much sums up how I feel about IU BBall right now, and the last several years..... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 37 minutes ago, rico said: We are missing fierce competitors. No doubt, hopefully Cupps is one of of those guys 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 39 minutes ago, rico said: We are missing fierce competitors. Absolutely! As Geo Baker said, nobody in the Big Ten is worried about or scared of Indiana. Heck, most Big Ten teams aren't even worried about coming into Assembly Hall anymore, and we're talking programs like NW, Nebraska, Penn State and Rutgers. These programs aren't even worried about Indiana. We just don't compete consistently at all. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 championships Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 46 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said: Watched this youtube video after the game and this perspective pretty much sums up how I feel about IU BBall right now, and the last several years..... Fantastic video by Kent Sterling!! He gets it! Agree with everything he has said 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 43 minutes ago, IU Scott said: No doubt, hopefully Cupps is one of of those guys Ideally the whole team is made up of those guys. But I would settle for 3-4 of them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, tdhoosier said: I understand where you are coming from. Yes, injuries make us weaker on defense. My argument is that it shouldn’t make us THAT weak. X and Race being out doesn’t excuse effort and readiness. Other that CJ Gunn on a few possessions I don’t remember seeing any real pressure on the ball. Are we just going to wait until X and Race comes back before we start playing with any urgency? Without a game plan adapted to the players we have available? And if we are going to want to win, we will need to be comfortable in zone for longer stretches. Why did Woody go away from it when it was working yesterday? Not only are we going to be lacking size with the 4, that will require us to zone, but we are going to have to save JHS. The guy played 35 minutes last night and has to carry the offense along with TJD. Not only is a tough ask Jalen to guard the opposing teams best guard, but we can’t put him in position to get in foul trouble. If Gallo has to run the point for long stretches we’re done. (No shade on Gallo, it’s not his natural position). Last night I listened to Assembly Call before I went to bed and one of the things brought up was that it looked like we weren’t prepared. It was almost like this team watched no tape on NW. They didn’t seem to know what they were running on offense. They didn’t seem to know that Buie anticipates passes and jumps the lane. They looked lost on defense. Even before X and Race went out, the writing was on the wall. This is just not a well coached team. We are fundamentally shallow. For the size advantage we had, our rebounding was piss poor. We STILL can’t hit free throws. Our passing is lazy. When we play horrible on defense due to lack of effort, woody says: it’s because of the injuries. When we play horrible offense because we are one dimensional, woody says: our shots aren't’ going in. What message does this send to the team when he excuses their lack of execution and effort on ‘bad luck’. When talking about Kopp, he says that Kopp has to shoot it more, but he doesn’t run any plays for Kopp. It’s like he thinks Kopp is an NBA player who can get his own shots. Kopp is a good player and can be very useful, but he can’t create for himself. Sorry for the long rant, but Woody has a lot to prove in my opinion. His hand is being forced with these injuries. He’s going to have to show that he can adapt. He’s going to have to get his arms wrapped around this team. We will lose some games that we had in the win column (I accept that), but losing to NW at home is not acceptable. Maybe I'm just simple minded, but to me there's not a big mystery here... Do we need to play harder? Yes...And that's one of the things he tells the freshmen all the time...I think at first everybody thought it was Malik he was talking to more than anybody, but I think it's all except for maybe CJ... We've gotten beat the last 2 games by a grand total of 3 points...Yeah, I know the Nortwestern game wasn't that close, but it is what it is... Take 2 starters off of any team and they'll struggle...Iowa lost to Eastern Illinois for God's sake when Kris Murray was out...Rutgers lost to Temple when they were missing Mulcahy and McConnell... Wisconsin lost at Illinois with Wahl out... Practice is a place where starting jobs are won...there's a reason Race plays over Malik, and XJ played over Galloway and Bates...They're better players... I think it's really presumptuous to lay this at Coach Woodson's feet right now... You call them excuses...I call them reasons...And there is a difference... Edited January 9, 2023 by IUFLA 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inequality Posted January 9, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 Xavier up to 12 in AP. Valuable road win. Likely won’t matter though unless things turn around quickly. Sean Miller getting it done in his first season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BAHoosier Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 32 minutes ago, Inequality said: Xavier up to 12 in AP. Valuable road win. Likely won’t matter though unless things turn around quickly. Sean Miller getting it done in his first season. And look what the former IU coach at Houston is doing, #1?? We'd all be ecstatic..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 37 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I think it's really presumptuous to lay this at Coach Woodson's feet right now... Again, it's not that we lost - it's the way we are losing. So I will just agree to disagree and hope that you are right. I truly want you to be right so bad. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoyeCowbell Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 33 minutes ago, Inequality said: Xavier up to 12 in AP. Valuable road win. Likely won’t matter though unless things turn around quickly. Sean Miller getting it done in his first season. Agree. Hanging our hat on an early season non-conference road win -- when we can't beat the bottom half of our own conference -- means nothing right now. There's really no reason to quantify/qualify wins if we can't even take care of the basics, the real basics, like blocking out, rebounding, defensive spacing, and taking care of the basketball. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 2 hours ago, rico said: We are missing fierce competitors. 11 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: Again, it's not that we lost - it's the way we are losing. So I will just agree to disagree and hope that you are right. I truly want you to be right so bad. I agree with you. I think what's needed first is assistants that coach/teach. I just don't believe the current assistants bring much to the table. How many times have I read posts about a player not getting better or regressing. I'm not sure that's what CMW wants seeing how they jettisoned Fife. I worry guys like Banks and Duncomb will see their lack of development and hit the portal. I'll be interested to see what the team looks like next year without TJD, Race, Kopp, XJ and JHS. The assistant coaches have their work cut out for them. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 12 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: Again, it's not that we lost - it's the way we are losing. So I will just agree to disagree and hope that you are right. I truly want you to be right so bad. I understand the concerns, but I'm looking at the stats and the only thing that jumps off the sheet to me is turnovers... We out shot Northwestern in both 2 and 3 pointers. We won the board battle. We had 1 less assist... But those turnovers killed us... And our star freshman had over a third of them. There's a difference between watching Chase Audige getting a hand on every pass and being on the court to see it first hand. There's a difference between seeing how quick Boo Buie is on film and trying to actually guard him... Experience is the greatest teacher... Our young players are getting a hard lesson right now... If they use this experience to get better, when we DO get XJ and Race back, it'll pay dividends... We're 1-3 with 16 Big 10 games left... We need to up our game, sure... We have another tough game against and experienced opponent on the road on Wednesday... I think we have a good chance to win if the younger guys use the experiences gained... BTW, not just the freshmen, but Tamar as well... He had 2 nice drives to the basket in the 2nd half, and I wanted to say, "what took you so long?" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 Good discussion. Because you bring these instances up…. 15 minutes ago, IUFLA said: But those turnovers killed us... And our star freshman had over a third of them. There's a difference between watching Chase Audige getting a hand on every pass and being on the court to see it first hand. There's a difference between seeing how quick Boo Buie is on film and trying to actually guard him... Experience is the greatest teacher... JHS did have some lackadaisical plays, but a) he played 35 minutes and had his hands on the ball a awful lot. B) the offense centers around him and Trayce. (Predictable). And speaking of predictable offenses, if the defense knows what we are going to do, they are going to be able jump those passing lanes. So yes, the stats and our kenpom ranking says we are good at offense, but we also have very high turnover rates in our losses because we are predictable and don’t make the defenses work. The points off those turnovers are high. We also have a great 3 pt %, but we rank in the 300’s in attempts, which brings me to the other point… 21 minutes ago, IUFLA said: BTW, not just the freshmen, but Tamar as well... He had 2 nice drives to the basket in the 2nd half, and I wanted to say, "what took you so long?" Because everything is centered around JHS and TJD, Tamar and Kopp aren’t given the opportunities to be productive. They hesitate because they aren’t usually involved in the normal flow (flow being a generous word) of the offense.They depend on kick outs, points in transition and broken plays off of long offensive rebounds. BUT because we don’t pressure the ball effectively or rebound well, we don’t get many transition opportunities. Because we can’t rebound on the offensive board, we don’t benefit from the defense being in disarray off a long offensive rebound. Because opposing defenses suck in on us, we don’t get many driving opportunities to kick the ball out. Our kickouts are normally a result of Trayce being triple teamed and throwing a highly pressured, off target pass. While I do think Tamar is on his way to create more of his own opportunities, he’s not there yet. Kopp definitely can’t create his opportunities, which is why he disappears for long stretches. My criticism, is why aren’t the coaches running different actions for more guys? Perhaps if they had done this in the last year and a half, we would be better prepared for these unfortunate circumstances we find ourselves in. So is it the players fault for just not being better or is it the staffs fault for not putting them in the right situations? 44 minutes ago, IUFLA said: We have another tough game against and experienced opponent on the road on Wednesday... I think we have a good chance to win if the younger guys use the experiences gained... Agree. This is not a good match up for us. And I’m not sure a zone will bail us out in this game if PSU is just going to shoot over it. I’m not expecting a win, but I would like to see some effort. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: Good discussion. Because you bring these instances up…. JHS did have some lackadaisical plays, but a) he played 35 minutes and had his hands on the ball a awful lot. B) the offense centers around him and Trayce. (Predictable). And speaking of predictable offenses, if the defense knows what we are going to do, they are going to be able jump those passing lanes. So yes, the stats and our kenpom ranking says we are good at offense, but we also have very high turnover rates in our losses because we are predictable and don’t make the defenses work. The points off those turnovers are high. We also have a great 3 pt %, but we rank in the 300’s in attempts, which brings me to the other point… Because everything is centered around JHS and TJD, Tamar and Kopp aren’t given the opportunities to be productive. They hesitate because they aren’t usually involved in the normal flow (flow being a generous word) of the offense.They depend on kick outs, points in transition and broken plays off of long offensive rebounds. BUT because we don’t pressure the ball effectively or rebound well, we don’t get many transition opportunities. Because we can’t rebound on the offensive board, we don’t benefit from the defense being in disarray off a long offensive rebound. Because opposing defenses suck in on us, we don’t get many driving opportunities to kick the ball out. Our kickouts are normally a result of Trayce being triple teamed and throwing a highly pressured, off target pass. While I do think Tamar is on his way to create more of his own opportunities, he’s not there yet. Kopp definitely can’t create his opportunities, which is why he disappears for long stretches. My criticism, is why aren’t the coaches running different actions for more guys? Perhaps if they had done this in the last year and a half, we would be better prepared for these unfortunate circumstances we find ourselves in. So is it the players fault for just not being better or is it the staffs fault for not putting them in the right situations? Agree. This is not a good match up for us. And I’m not sure a zone will bail us out in this game if PSU is just going to shoot over it. I’m not expecting a win, but I would like to see some effort. I agree that Trayce doesn't need the ball every trip down... Makes us too predictable and, as you said, stifles growth in other players... As far as our chances against PSU, I was always under the impression that you don't zone against a good outside shooting team... And Penn State is probably one of the top outside shooting teams in the Big 10... Harrar is gone... Not sure how they're going to cope with Trayce... Edited January 9, 2023 by IUFLA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 Pretty easy to see XJs importance after watching our team the first 4.5 games without him. Man we need him back, pronto. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) https://www.si.com/college/indiana/basketball/grace-berger-back-without-minutes-restriction-indiana-womens-basketball Sorry if this has already been posted, but IU women got a huge lift when Grace Berger returned to the court for IU. I say this because of the immense level of confidence a team has when an injured starter returns to the lineup. This is what I’m hoping for X and Race this year. We are down and very vulnerable right now. IMO, being dropped from the top 25 is a blessing in disguise. Until our bench becomes competitive, turnovers are cut down and free throws improve, we are just another soft team. Until these things show improvement, I’m afraid the losses will most likely continue. Man, that hurts to think and talk that way, but it’s just the brutal reality right now! I’m just going to use X’s and Race’s absence as a opportunities for others to get better. They have to, if we want wins. Edited January 9, 2023 by Artesian_86 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inequality Posted January 9, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 B1G freshman of the week 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 30 minutes ago, Inequality said: B1G freshman of the week Great and deserved for JHS, but I would have preferred a couple of wins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoyeCowbell Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 Far too often we have lost games we are 'supposed' to win. It's been a while since we've done the opposite. That, to me, is more of a testament to the stuff going on between the ears than anything physically. The first 15 minutes against Iowa was some of the best, most in-sync basketball I've seen IU play in a long time. Maybe Race's injury affected them more than I'm willing to admit, but the team really lost its mojo and focus. Against NU, the lack of defensive positioning, anticipation, and decisiveness was appalling. Lazy passes, lazy footwork, matador defense... this team needs someone (ie a player) to get in their face and demand accountability. Be the teammate first, friend second. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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