TheWatShot Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 @IU Scott would probably like to see this: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/40847173/mlb-rule-changes-2024-six-inning-starting-pitcher-injuries-tommy-john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted August 16 Author Report Share Posted August 16 1 hour ago, TheWatShot said: @IU Scott would probably like to see this: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/40847173/mlb-rule-changes-2024-six-inning-starting-pitcher-injuries-tommy-john I like the idea. But, there will be significant pushback from the Player's Union. The story lists the exceptions to the rule as being 100 pitches 4 earned runs Injury What I'm not sure I understand is why distinguish between earned runs and unearned runs. Fielder makes a two out error and then the pitcher gives up a string of hits and a homer, making all the runs unearned. How is that 'different' than giving up those runs without the benefit of the two out fielding error? That said, this would address my greatest gripe with the game today, which is too much reliance on the bullpen. I grew up with guys like Ryan, Seaver, and Carlton throwing 250+ innings a year. In 2023, Logan Webb led the majors with 216 innings pitched. Only 44 pitchers, an average of less than 1.5 per team, pitched enough innings (162) to qualify for the ERA title in 2023. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 1 hour ago, TheWatShot said: @IU Scott would probably like to see this: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/40847173/mlb-rule-changes-2024-six-inning-starting-pitcher-injuries-tommy-john Sorry but I absolutely hate this. I don't understand what this would fix? I think asking a dude to throw 6+ innings every 5th/6th day is pretty nuts. 🤷♂️... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 2 hours ago, TheWatShot said: @IU Scott would probably like to see this: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/40847173/mlb-rule-changes-2024-six-inning-starting-pitcher-injuries-tommy-john I want to see pitchers pitch longer into games because that is what is expected from that position. I don't think they should mandate at least 6 innings for a starter just because it is a rule. I just think they just need to train to pitchers to pitch longer at an earlier age 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 27 minutes ago, btownqb said: Sorry but I absolutely hate this. I don't understand what this would fix? I think asking a dude to throw 6+ innings every 5th/6th day is pretty nuts. 🤷♂️... Why is that nuts to expect your starter to pitch 6 innings every 5 days. Guys used to pitch every 4 days while pitching more than 6 innings in a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted August 16 Author Report Share Posted August 16 26 minutes ago, btownqb said: Sorry but I absolutely hate this. I don't understand what this would fix? I think asking a dude to throw 6+ innings every 5th/6th day is pretty nuts. 🤷♂️... It's intent goes beyond 'innings'. It would force starting pitchers to pitch more to contact with the goal of reducing walks and strikeouts, which are bad for the sport. Pitchers easily reached that goal 20-25 years ago, and blasted by it back in the 70's and 80's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 3 minutes ago, 5fouls said: It's intent goes beyond 'innings'. It would force starting pitchers to pitch more to contact with the goal of reducing walks and strikeouts, which are bad for the sport. Pitchers easily reached that goal 20-25 years ago, and blasted by it back in the 70's and 80's. You need to teach these kids to pitch instead of just throwing the ball. Today it is about throwing as hard as you can for as long as you can and spin rate as well. It is obvious this kind of teaching had lead to way more injuries to pitchers and it shows babying pitchers don't prevent injuries. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 5 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Why is that nuts to expect your starter to pitch 6 innings every 5 days. Guys used to pitch every 4 days while pitching more than 6 innings in a game. Because it's hard af and they don't do that any level of baseball before the MLB.. literally. HS, college, and minors... they throw once a week. 3 minutes ago, 5fouls said: It's intent goes beyond 'innings'. It would force starting pitchers to pitch more to contact with the goal of reducing walks and strikeouts, which are bad for the sport. Pitchers easily reached that goal 20-25 years ago, and blasted by it back in the 70's and 80's. I don't understand the relevance of 25 years ago. I don't understand why the game is auto better if a starting pitcher throws 6+ innings.. I find that to be personal preference. Nothing wrong with you preferring that, but I don't think there's anything wrong with mine either. Hand to God... I would rather see 28+ guys on a roster with more arms than this. Now.. pitching to contact is intriguing, that could end up in more home run derbys than we have now. I'll even throw this out there.. I love using an opener. I think teams should look into that more often. Love it. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 (edited) 23 minutes ago, btownqb said: Because it's hard af and they don't do that any level of baseball before the MLB.. literally. HS, college, and minors... they throw once a week. I don't understand the relevance of 25 years ago. I don't understand why the game is auto better if a starting pitcher throws 6+ innings.. I find that to be personal preference. Nothing wrong with you preferring that, but I don't think there's anything wrong with mine either. Hand to God... I would rather see 28+ guys on a roster with more arms than this. Now.. pitching to contact is intriguing, that could end up in more home run derbys than we have now. I'll even throw this out there.. I love using an opener. I think teams should look into that more often. Love it. 🤷♂️ I rather it go back to where you only had 10 pitchers on the roster. I just rather my best pitchers pitch more than you rely on 3 or 5 pitchers to get through a game. My ideal preference is for my starter to complete the game or the starter goes 8 and bring your closer in. I have no desire to see a team run out 7 pitchers to complete. If you start early in minors and teach the pitchers to pitch and learn to conserve pitches the longer they can pitch. I know you don't understand how we older fans thinks about sports because you just know what you have seen. We have seen the game played in different eras and we have seen the game played in different styles. A lot of us just prefers how the game used to be played. In baseball it is starters going deep in games and not relying on analytics to decide every decision. Edited August 16 by IU Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 Another thing I see today is what is considered a good hitter has totally changed. It just bothers me seeing people state a player had a great career and he is hitting under .240. The last time I checked the NL had two players hitting over .300 and only 8 in all of baseball. I am over watching guys strike out over 100 times a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted August 16 Author Report Share Posted August 16 (edited) 1 hour ago, btownqb said: I don't understand the relevance of 25 years ago. Now.. pitching to contact is intriguing, that could end up in more home run derbys than we have now. 25 years ago. 1999. Height of the steroid era. Here are the pitchers that gave up the most hits that year. Two Hall of Famers and 300 game winners in the Top 3. How did they survive pitching to contact when balls were flying out of the park at a record pace? Neither was a power pitcher. They didn't walk people. Maddux walked a grand total of 37 batters in 33 starts. They pitched to contact. Induced weak contact. Maddux averaged 6 2/3 innings per start (age 33) Glavine averaged 6 2/3 innings per start (age 33) Edited August 16 by 5fouls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 36 minutes ago, 5fouls said: 25 years ago. 1999. Height of the steroid era. Here are the pitchers that gave up the most hits that year. Two Hall of Famers and 300 game winners in the Top 3. How did they survive pitching to contact when balls were flying out of the park at a record pace? Neither was a power pitcher. They didn't walk people. Maddux walked a grand total of 37 batters in 33 starts. They pitched to contact. Induced weak contact. Maddux averaged 6 2/3 innings per start (age 33) Glavine averaged 6 2/3 innings per start (age 33) I just want pitchers learn to conserve pitches. I hate seeing pitchers having 100 pitches after 5 innings. I love Hunter Green and he has been great but if he would limit his walks and HBP. He leads the league in both categories and if he limits those two he could go deeper into games 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 2 hours ago, 5fouls said: 25 years ago. 1999. Height of the steroid era. Here are the pitchers that gave up the most hits that year. Two Hall of Famers and 300 game winners in the Top 3. How did they survive pitching to contact when balls were flying out of the park at a record pace? Neither was a power pitcher. They didn't walk people. Maddux walked a grand total of 37 batters in 33 starts. They pitched to contact. Induced weak contact. Maddux averaged 6 2/3 innings per start (age 33) Glavine averaged 6 2/3 innings per start (age 33) Nick Martinez is listening to us because in 3 perfect innings he had only thrown 30 pitches 3K's o walks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 17 Report Share Posted August 17 I knew Bobby Witt Jr was good but he is having an MVP season. .352, 25 HR, 90 RBI, 30+ SB Tonight is 3-4 HR, 2B, single It is obvious the Reds offense relies to much on the home run. If they don't hit homers they struggle to score Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 17 Report Share Posted August 17 David Bell is by far the dumbest manager in baseball. He keeps putting Cruz into tight high leverage games. He got out of the 8th inning without giving up a run but brings him back for the top of 9th only down 3-1 but he gave up 3 runs to put the game away. It was only the second time he has pitched a second inning. For the last half of the season he has been horrible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 17 Report Share Posted August 17 I guess it is to much to expect for the Reds offense to put more than 4 good games together in a row. They lose 7-1 in only 4 hits and 3 doubles and only 1 single. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted August 17 Report Share Posted August 17 5 hours ago, 5fouls said: 25 years ago. 1999. Height of the steroid era. Here are the pitchers that gave up the most hits that year. Two Hall of Famers and 300 game winners in the Top 3. How did they survive pitching to contact when balls were flying out of the park at a record pace? Neither was a power pitcher. They didn't walk people. Maddux walked a grand total of 37 batters in 33 starts. They pitched to contact. Induced weak contact. Maddux averaged 6 2/3 innings per start (age 33) Glavine averaged 6 2/3 innings per start (age 33) Maddox and Glavine are the examples!?!?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWatShot Posted August 17 Report Share Posted August 17 The White Sox got their 30th win tonight. The Yankees got their 30th win 3 months ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted August 17 Author Report Share Posted August 17 1 hour ago, btownqb said: Maddox and Glavine are the examples!?!?!?! Exactly. Glavine and Maddux don't exist in today's game. The focus on what is required of a starting pitcher has changed, and not for the better. 300 wins. That's AVERAGING 15 wins for 20 straight years. You know how many pitchers won 15 games in 2023? The answer is 8. The number of pitchers to win 15 games in 1999? That would be 28. 28 pitchers won 15 or more games in 1999, at the height of offensive output due to steroids and live baseballs. Pitchers were allowed to go 6 or 7 innings despite giving up 3 or 4 runs. Pitchers allowed contact despite all of the offensive numbers hitters were putting up, and therefore weren't pushing 100 pitches after 4 or 5 innings. And, pitchers back then were able to do that without ruining their careers. Maddux and Glavine would never be given the opportunity in today's game to accomplish what they did back then. And that's not good for the game. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted August 17 Report Share Posted August 17 6 hours ago, 5fouls said: Exactly. Glavine and Maddux don't exist in today's game. The focus on what is required of a starting pitcher has changed, and not for the better. 300 wins. That's AVERAGING 15 wins for 20 straight years. You know how many pitchers won 15 games in 2023? The answer is 8. The number of pitchers to win 15 games in 1999? That would be 28. 28 pitchers won 15 or more games in 1999, at the height of offensive output due to steroids and live baseballs. Pitchers were allowed to go 6 or 7 innings despite giving up 3 or 4 runs. Pitchers allowed contact despite all of the offensive numbers hitters were putting up, and therefore weren't pushing 100 pitches after 4 or 5 innings. And, pitchers back then were able to do that without ruining their careers. Maddux and Glavine would never be given the opportunity in today's game to accomplish what they did back then. And that's not good for the game. . Watching Maddox highlights. I've never seen a pitcher get a bigger zone than he got. Umpiring was considerably worse based on 90s video. Tough zone now for the pitcher and we're seeing that in the college game.... offensive explosion. I'd start for the first thing for the MLB to clean up. Umpires still aren't good enough. Idc if a starting pitcher throws 1 pitch or 4000 in a game. I don't have energy for this. The game changes zero for me. Execute pitches. I coached travel, I watch college... I like 2-3 innings guys and a bunch of them. I've never cared about a pitchers w/L. I get wayyyy more pissed in the 5th, 6th, or 7th when they leave a starting pitcher in and they get shelled in those innings/clearly lose their stuff. I'll say again-- I don't care whether a SP throws 3 innings or 6. I doubt the younger fans care about this though. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted August 17 Author Report Share Posted August 17 1 hour ago, btownqb said: Watching Maddox highlights. I've never seen a pitcher get a bigger zone than he got. Umpiring was considerably worse based on 90s video. Tough zone now for the pitcher and we're seeing that in the college game.... offensive explosion. I'd start for the first thing for the MLB to clean up. Umpires still aren't good enough. Idc if a starting pitcher throws 1 pitch or 4000 in a game. I don't have energy for this. The game changes zero for me. Execute pitches. I coached travel, I watch college... I like 2-3 innings guys and a bunch of them. I've never cared about a pitchers w/L. I get wayyyy more pissed in the 5th, 6th, or 7th when they leave a starting pitcher in and they get shelled in those innings/clearly lose their stuff. I'll say again-- I don't care whether a SP throws 3 innings or 6. I doubt the younger fans care about this though. 🤷♂️ I respect your opinion. I think it's a generational thing. The game I fell in love with included starting pitchers being the centerpiece of a franchise. And, I'm not speaking as one of those guys who resists all change. A lot of changes have made the game better. I just don't think de-emphasizing the starting pitcher is one of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naturalhoosier Posted August 17 Report Share Posted August 17 16 hours ago, 5fouls said: 25 years ago. 1999. Height of the steroid era. Here are the pitchers that gave up the most hits that year. Two Hall of Famers and 300 game winners in the Top 3. How did they survive pitching to contact when balls were flying out of the park at a record pace? Neither was a power pitcher. They didn't walk people. Maddux walked a grand total of 37 batters in 33 starts. They pitched to contact. Induced weak contact. Maddux averaged 6 2/3 innings per start (age 33) Glavine averaged 6 2/3 innings per start (age 33) RIP Lima. One of the greatest guys to play the game. One of a kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 17 Report Share Posted August 17 10 hours ago, 5fouls said: Exactly. Glavine and Maddux don't exist in today's game. The focus on what is required of a starting pitcher has changed, and not for the better. 300 wins. That's AVERAGING 15 wins for 20 straight years. You know how many pitchers won 15 games in 2023? The answer is 8. The number of pitchers to win 15 games in 1999? That would be 28. 28 pitchers won 15 or more games in 1999, at the height of offensive output due to steroids and live baseballs. Pitchers were allowed to go 6 or 7 innings despite giving up 3 or 4 runs. Pitchers allowed contact despite all of the offensive numbers hitters were putting up, and therefore weren't pushing 100 pitches after 4 or 5 innings. And, pitchers back then were able to do that without ruining their careers. Maddux and Glavine would never be given the opportunity in today's game to accomplish what they did back then. And that's not good for the game. . Preach it brother but the younger crowd won't understand that mind set Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted August 17 Report Share Posted August 17 1 hour ago, 5fouls said: I respect your opinion. I think it's a generational thing. The game I fell in love with included starting pitchers being the centerpiece of a franchise. And, I'm not speaking as one of those guys who resists all change. A lot of changes have made the game better. I just don't think de-emphasizing the starting pitcher is one of them. I get it. For sure, I get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 17 Report Share Posted August 17 1 hour ago, 5fouls said: I respect your opinion. I think it's a generational thing. The game I fell in love with included starting pitchers being the centerpiece of a franchise. And, I'm not speaking as one of those guys who resists all change. A lot of changes have made the game better. I just don't think de-emphasizing the starting pitcher is one of them. To me it isn't change that makes things worse but when you over emphasis the different changes. Like in college basketball I liked the 45 second shot clock and the 3 point line. The problem is they keep changing it until it hurts the game. Now the clock is down to 30 and teams emphasizes the 3 way to much and it hurts the style of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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