rico Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: Stats aside, I stand by my statement... Herr sucked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, rico said: Herr sucked? He didn't suck, but anyone who didn't want to pitch to a guy with 28 career home runs to face a guy who hit 20+ in 11 separate major league seasons isn't sane in my opinion... Plus, he played during a time when a HoF 2nd baseman played in the NL 🙂 Edited July 18, 2023 by IUFLA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 26 minutes ago, IUFLA said: He didn't suck, but anyone who didn't want to pitch to a guy with 28 career home runs to face a guy who hit 20+ in 11 separate major league seasons isn't sane in my opinion... Plus, he played during a time when a HoF 2nd baseman played in the NL 🙂 Just for quick reference back to Schwarber... Kyle has hit 25+ in 6 seasons... if it weren't for injury and covid.. he would already have 8 seasons. PLUS.. his rookie year he hit 16 in the MLB and 16 in AAA... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 @rico it was actually a brilliant move by Whitey Herzog to put Herr in the 3 spot behind Coleman and Smith or McGee... A punch and Judy guy hitting in front of Jack Clark with that speed on base... I lived over there at that time... Probably went to 15-20 games in 85... My SIL was dating a guy who worked for a marketing firm, and he got free tickets a lot... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted July 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 17 minutes ago, IUFLA said: @rico it was actually a brilliant move by Whitey Herzog to put Herr in the 3 spot behind Coleman and Smith or McGee... A punch and Judy guy hitting in front of Jack Clark with that speed on base... I lived over there at that time... Probably went to 15-20 games in 85... My SIL was dating a guy who worked for a marketing firm, and he got free tickets a lot... I took a lot longer than I should have to figure out 'SIL' was 'Sister-in-Law' and not 'Son-in-Law' Son would have meant the guy was married to your daughter at the time, and I was stuck on this being a 3-party relationship that you appeared to be okay with because of the tickets. I'm not kidding. I bounced that around in my brain for a while before I figured out you meant 'Sister' 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 2 hours ago, btownqb said: That kind of stat line sucks, though. His OBP isn't good and he can't hit it out of the infield. Who couldn't,Herr he had 110 RBI and the last time I checked the object of the game is to score runs. I don't care about some computer geeks made up analytics to tell me who is good and who isn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 22 minutes ago, IUFLA said: @rico it was actually a brilliant move by Whitey Herzog to put Herr in the 3 spot behind Coleman and Smith or McGee... A punch and Judy guy hitting in front of Jack Clark with that speed on base... I lived over there at that time... Probably went to 15-20 games in 85... My SIL was dating a guy who worked for a marketing firm, and he got free tickets a lot... To steal a scene from Bull Durham. 500 at bats, 25 extra hits a season is 50 points. About 25 weeks in a season...you tell me Tommy Herr didn't benefit from that concrete jungle in STL at the time? Just one extra hit a week is difference between .310 and .260...Haha. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted July 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 8 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Who couldn't,Herr he had 110 RBI and the last time I checked the object of the game is to score runs. I don't care about some computer geeks made up analytics to tell me who is good and who isn't Player A has the following stats. 110 RBIs 30 Home Runs and 20 Doubles .280 Batting Average His team scores 880 runs (he drives in 1 out of every 8 runs his team scores) His team wins the World Series Player B has the following stats 110 RBIs 20 Home Runs and 30 Doubles .310 Batting Average His team scores only 660 runs ( he drives in 1 out of every 6 runs his team scores) His team finishes 81-81 Which player had the better season? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 24 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Who couldn't,Herr he had 110 RBI and the last time I checked the object of the game is to score runs. I don't care about some computer geeks made up analytics to tell me who is good and who isn't Herr had 584 RBIs in 6116 plate appearances for his career... Roughly 1 RBI for every 10.5 PAs ... Schwarber has 500 RBIs in his career so far in 3662 plate appearances... Or 1 RBI for every 7 PAs... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 16 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Player A has the following stats. 110 RBIs 30 Home Runs and 20 Doubles .280 Batting Average His team scores 880 runs (he drives in 1 out of every 8 runs his team scores) His team wins the World Series Player B has the following stats 110 RBIs 20 Home Runs and 30 Doubles .310 Batting Average His team scores only 660 runs ( he drives in 1 out of every 6 runs his team scores) His team finishes 81-81 Which player had the better season? B for an individual season, also how many runs did each player score, what kind of baseball runner were they. They have the speed to go first to third on a single or score from first on a double. For me sports is about entertainment and don't think all of these advance metrics brings anything to the table for me. Give me for batters. BA, HR, RBI, BB, K'S, runs scored. For pitchers ERA, K'S, BB, IP, Hits allowed. I would use to say their record but today's baseball doesn't allow starting pitching to do their jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Herr had 584 RBIs in 6116 plate appearances for his career... Roughly 1 RBI for every 10.5 PAs ... Schwarber has 500 RBIs in his career so far in 3662 plate appearances... Or 1 RBI for every 7 PAs... Again I am talking about his stat line that one year and not comparing him as a player to Schwarber. I am just saying that Schwarber needs the change his approach to hitting and stop worrying about just hitting bombs. Also if he had a manger that would actually be smart and take him out of the leadoff spot he might do better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Again I am talking about his stat line that one year and not comparing him as a player to Schwarber. I am just saying that Schwarber needs the change his approach to hitting and stop worrying about just hitting bombs. Also if he had a manger that would actually be smart and take him out of the leadoff spot he might do better And it was explained that Herr not only had 2 of the fastest guys in baseball history in front of him, he also had one of the most feared hitters of his time behind him... That'll get you a lot of fastballs for strikes to hit... Herr was a mediocre talent who was in a fortunate situation... Schwarber is what he is... But he averages 89 RBIs per 162 games... And, as you said, runs are the name of the game... Edited July 18, 2023 by IUFLA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 23 minutes ago, IUFLA said: And it was explained that Herr not only had 2 of the fastest guys in baseball history in front of him, he also had one of the most feared hitters of his time behind him... That'll get you a lot of fastballs for strikes to hit... Herr was a mediocre talent who was in a fortunate situation... Schwarber is what he is... But he averages 89 RBIs per 162 games... And, as you said, runs are the name of the game... That is why they need to get Schwarber out of the leadoff position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted July 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 33 minutes ago, IU Scott said: B for an individual season, also how many runs did each player score, what kind of baseball runner were they. They have the speed to go first to third on a single or score from first on a double. For me sports is about entertainment and don't think all of these advance metrics brings anything to the table for me. Give me for batters. BA, HR, RBI, BB, K'S, runs scored. For pitchers ERA, K'S, BB, IP, Hits allowed. I would use to say their record but today's baseball doesn't allow starting pitching to do their jobs. Wrong answer. Regardless of anything else, Player A had the better season because he was a contributor on a Championsip team. Player B may have had similar, or even slightly higher, individual stats, but his team did not win. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 Kyle Schwarber 162 game avg-- 93 runs Tom Herr-- 72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, IU Scott said: That is why they need to get Schwarber out of the leadoff position Schwarber was T9 in runs scored throughout the entire MLB last year. Out of leadoff hitters he was 2nd or 3rd overall. Edited July 18, 2023 by btownqb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 40 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Wrong answer. Regardless of anything else, Player A had the better season because he was a contributor on a Championsip team. Player B may have had similar, or even slightly higher, individual stats, but his team did not win. You asked who had the better individual season. So you aren't going to give Ohtani the MVP because he didn't win the championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 20 minutes ago, btownqb said: Schwarber was T9 in runs scored throughout the entire MLB last year. Out of leadoff hitters he was 2nd or 3rd overall. I want a hitter like Schwarber driving in runs and let others score in front of him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 5 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I want a hitter like Schwarber driving in runs and let others score in front of him I don't necessarily understand the the leadoff hitter thing with Schwarber, other than... he IS damn good at hitting lead off bombs... But... this is like his 3 or 4th manager, out of 4 or 5, that have had him leadoff... There are other factors.. and simply watching the Phillies, as often as I do, I don't know who would be a better leadoff guy than he is on their current roster.. while his strikeout #s are high.. his pitches seen per AB are high.. maybe they like how he can work counts in that spot, maybe its a lefty righty thing. Idk, but 4 managers have hit him leadoff and he goes to the playoffs a lot... 🤷♂️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted July 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 (edited) 57 minutes ago, IU Scott said: You asked who had the better individual season. So you aren't going to give Ohtani the MVP because he didn't win the championship. Nowhere in my post did I use the word 'individual'. And, the intent of my post is that stats are meaningless without context. Herr's 110 RBIs are not 'better' just because he only had 9 home runs. They were the product of the team he was on. Bat Herr 3rd in the 2022 Reds lineup and he's lucky if he gets 50 RBIs. Meanwhile, when Schwarber hits 45 homers in a season, he's guaranteed to have 45 RBI's just driving in himself. Edited July 18, 2023 by 5fouls 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 1 hour ago, btownqb said: I don't necessarily understand the the leadoff hitter thing with Schwarber, other than... he IS damn good at hitting lead off bombs... But... this is like his 3 or 4th manager, out of 4 or 5, that have had him leadoff... There are other factors.. and simply watching the Phillies, as often as I do, I don't know who would be a better leadoff guy than he is on their current roster.. while his strikeout #s are high.. his pitches seen per AB are high.. maybe they like how he can work counts in that spot, maybe its a lefty righty thing. Idk, but 4 managers have hit him leadoff and he goes to the playoffs a lot... 🤷♂️ To me it isn't about the first at bat but the rest of the at bats. When you have him batting after the 8-9 batters who are usually your weakest hitters then he will have less opportunities with runners on. I haven't watched them as much as you but this would be my 2-6 hitters for the Phillies. 2) Turner, might have him leadoff 3) Schwarber 4) Realmutto 5) Harper 6) Brohm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 18 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Nowhere in my post did I use the word 'individual'. And, the intent of my post is that stats are meaningless without context. Herr's 110 RBIs are not 'better' just because he only had 9 home runs. They were the product of the team he was on. Bat Herr 3rd in the 2022 Reds lineup and he's lucky if he gets 50 RBIs. Meanwhile, when Schwarber hits 45 homers in a season, he's guaranteed to have 45 RBI's just driving in himself. You asked who had the best year and I took it as individual stats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 I just think everyone sees the game differently and value different than ngs when it comes to sports Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 Reds suspended game just started in the top of the 8th and SF has runners on 2ns and 3rd and 1 out. To bad on a suspended game you don't revert to the start of the inning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: Reds suspended game just started in the top of the 8th and SF has runners on 2ns and 3rd and 1 out. To bad on a suspended game you don't revert to the start of the inning. Good job by Sims to get out of the inning with no scoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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