NCHoosier32

my son's team was that way last season. they didn't really have anyone capable of taking over a game and when they played good, smart, patient, unselfish ball, they were pretty good. could play with most teams. when things went poorly 3 of them would all decide they needed to be the guy who stepped up and tried to take over. it would become clear that the whole team was pressing too much and they would play worse and worse. minus a couple of those guys and now a new coach and they play together and accept roles and they are 3rd in the state.

some say we play a big role on the message boards, so i'm saying yes!

i just don't see it that way. i mean we can say TJD got better over 6 years or whatever. he did. don't most? he didn't improve his range or ballhandling, expand his game, he just got better at what he did. again, JHS got off to a slow start because Woodson had him playing out of position. he was forced to play him at PG when X went down and that's when he "improved." Thompson got better? okay i guess. over 6 years he got a little better. Galloway is still pretty much the same player. in his 4th year he is shooting a little better. Reneau is better because he is getting the chance to play a bigger role.

we this very very differently

good point

so you're agreeing with me about JHS and TJD? just making sure i understand. would make me feel a little better to have someone i generally respect and agree with saying that!

agreed and i definitely think the key is that kids like him, trust him, think he is cool and has connections. that along with being a respected alum gives him some time. if we lose by 12 + at Illinois like i expect then turn around and lose a 4th straight at home vs Iowa, things may really start going sideways. if Ware is out a while it's hard to imagine why we wouldn't get creative with lineups and style of play.

man, i don't necessarily disagree, but i think if we lose 3 straight games by 12 or more then lose a 4th at home vs Iowa the scoreboard needs to fall or we need to cancel the rest of the season or fire Woodson before he even gets to the locker room? all joking aside i think that would constitute a complete meltdown.

kind of stretching my words to say a coach shouldn't ever get credit. TJD got better i suppose, but at what exactly? playing harder consistently? he didn't improve his range or diversify his game did he? JHS came in a 5 star recruit with a body already ready for B1G level of play. Woodson started him out off the ball, so he wasn't what he would later become. i still argue that had X not gone down he would have kept him there and held him back. so if we want to give him credit, we can say he at least put him at PG when he had to? other than that, we'll keep disagreeing. i would think Reneaue is just about what everyone expected now that he starts and gets a ton of touches. i guess we can say he seemed to get Ware to play harder for a while, but isn't it kind of turning into what happened at OR as far as inconsistent effort? only difference is that he continues to start every game and get a lot of touches every game. i'm just not willing to say Woodson has a proven record of developing players.

hard to imagine not losing this one by 15 +. the question becomes will this derail us to the point where we have issues and don't right the ship for the home game vs Iowa?

i don't disagree with your overall point, but don't other coaches probably realize that TJD has in like his 8th year of college basketball and was pretty much still the same player, but more experienced? and that JHS was going to do what he did given the chance? i'm just not ready to give a ton of credit for that. then i guess he accomplished making the tourney, but going nowhere with that. i don't think that's a huge accomplishment with the talent we had. i do agree about the purgatory statement though. would be a pretty unpopular firing at this point and continue the carousel. someone like May could fear he'll be jobless in 3 years if he isn't succeeding. unfortunately we agree that Woodson ain't goin anywhere and he is not the guy we need to get us over the hump.

sorry, not trying to be combative, but has he proven he is really good at player development? i mean this is his 3rd year of college basketball. i refuse to agree with people who say he "developed" JHS in one year. he had to play him at PG with X out, so JHS did his thing. some say he developed TJD? i mean he was about the same player, but older and more experienced right? Galloway is pretty much the same. a little better every year i'd say. Reneau is getting a bigger role and more freedom with another year. i'm just not sure he has proven he is really good at player development. are we pointing to the NBA? i can't speak to that. haven't watched it in many many years. don't know what his role was as an NBA assistant and how developed those guys already were.

is he a teacher of the game?

ahhhhhh. love the Cubs reference. so happy to have a good manager this year. now gotta sign Belli, one more bat, a SP, and a closer.

pretty sure he was talking about you right? you have the power of email.

yeah. relates to what i was saying about identity. you know those teams are gonna be mentally tough and also physically tough every night.

hasn't this thread gotten a little strange with the Fire Mike Woodson one as well now? not sure what should go where.

kills me, but you're absolutely right.

yeah. large majority said it was no big deal and even defended it. same with XJ. need to have consequences. they are kids/young adults. they need to be taught.

i can't even imagine 20 wins. need 8... home vs Iowa and Penn St., home vs. NW and Neb? home vs MSU? that's 5. i mean 1 in the B1G tourney? then you're still looking for 2 more assuming you win all of those home games. so home vs Wisc? maybe? then a road game? super hard to imagine.

100% agree with this. you have to be able to manage people and do it quickly in today's bball society. that means you have to be able to be cool, but also be the disciplinarian.

i would be willing to bet that it is. i don't really even fault that though. i'm sure that's an important selling point to his NBA future. it just ain't workin.

oh wow. this seems early, but i totally agree. i don't think there's any way it happens, but i would have assumed if i started this thread that a certain regime would come hard at me! i am very curious to hear how many think it should happen and how many think it won't happen.

and the fact that this is the new college game anyway? aren't most teams brand new every year for the most part?